[Planescape] Questions about Sigil

[cmrscorpio]

Can you point me to a description that specifically says Sigil can't be seen from the Outlands? I would like to see something concrete, not something that I need to interpret as Sigil not being seen from the Outlands.

"Nobody's ever seen the outside of Sigil because there may not be an outside." (Sigil and Beyond pg59).

 

[Ambrus]

"As if on cue, the clouds about the spire drifted outward, revealing the spire's summit. Floating above the summit was a huge circular ring." (Finder's Bane page 217)

 

[I'm A Banana]

I love it when the source contradicts itself!

OR IS IT?! Perhaps the torus atop the spire (which can be seen from the outlands, apparently) is not Sigil (which is also a torus atop the spire)....Shadowsigil?

 

[Ambrus]

Perhaps the torus atop the spire (which can be seen from the Outlands, apparently) is not Sigil (which is also a torus atop the spire)....Shadowsigil?

That's the longstanding debate within the campaign setting; there's no way to confirm that they're both one and the same, but since they seemed to be similarly shaped most everyone simply assumes that they are. I believe that's what the quote from Sigil and Beyond is in reference to; no one's ever gotten out of Sigil from the inside to take a look at it from the outside so there's no way to confirm that there even is an outside... ...that is unless you assume that the torus floating above the spire in the Outlands is Sigil.

 

[Felon]

I'm afraid you got caught up in some confusing conjecture. From the inside of Sigil, the city has a measurable and traversible size; approximately 20 miles in circumference and 5 miles in diameter. Residents in the city can walk wherever they want within the city without being teleported around or anything like that. You can see the edge of the city and walk to it just as you could in the real world; it's never more than a few miles away. When you arrive at the edge you'd end up facing a solid wall of buildings without windows facing the outer edge (it makes people uncomfortable to have a view of nothing outside). You could climb up to the roof of any of those buildings and you'd be confronted with that same disturbing view; nothing. No clouds, no sky, just a featureless void. If you stepped out into that void you'd disappear and likely never be heard from again. People have been known to step off into the void, but there are no credible accounts of anyone ever making it back.

Wait, now I'm confused once more. So Sigil isn't a true torus with a fully-enclosed interior (like an intertube), but rather it has an open-faced interior (like a bicycle tire, or Niven's Ringworld)?

 

[Ambrus]

Wait, now I'm confused once more. So Sigil isn't a true torus with a fully-enclosed interior (like an intertube), but rather it has an open-faced interior (like a bicycle tire, or Niven's Ringworld)?

Exactly. It's often described as an auto tire without any rim or hub, and with the city built on the inside surface. So there are two distinct edges of the city with very big circular openings facing out onto a featureless void. Mind the gap.

 

[Oryan77]

Wait, now I'm confused once more. So Sigil isn't a true torus with a fully-enclosed interior (like an intertube), but rather it has an open-faced interior (like a bicycle tire, or Niven's Ringworld)?

Correct. Think of it like a car tire.

 

[Felon]

Correct. Think of it like a car tire.

OK, so if a character just flies up into the sky (or is hurled far enough), they're basically jumping into a giant sphere of oblivion?

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

OK, so if a character just flies up into the sky (or is hurled far enough), they're basically jumping into a giant sphere of oblivion?

I've seen it run both ways. I know someone who basically says you go anywhere above the rim into the center of the torus you go to never-never land.

Personally I'd run it so that the center of the torus was an open zero-geeish air space but if you dropped below the top or bottom lip of the torus then you went bye-bye.

 

[Ripzerai]

Rip, if you don't buy that the illustrations are intended to be taken as realistic depictions

Of course they aren't; the Spire, as you'll recall, is infinitely tall. The illustrations obviously don't convey that.

is there anything that would convince you that the torus is intended to be visible from the Outlands?

I'm impressed by your Finder's Bane quote. That's a book I haven't read. Consider the point made.