[Planescape] Squaring the Circle Redux - OOC (Full)

[Thanee]

The special abilities are just substituted for the "pluses". So, a +3 weapon could be either simple +3, or +2 Ghost Touch, or +1 Holy, all of those add up to a +3 weapon bonus.

That's why, even though the maximum enhancement bonus is +5, the table goes all the way to a +10 weapon bonus, since you can have a +5 Holy Cold Keen Ghost Touch weapon, for example, which would be a total weapon bonus of +10, but an enhancement bonus of +5.

All you do is add together the "pluses" to derive the total weapon bonus and look up the base price.


Now for the bad news...

Since your caster level is only 7th, you can only craft weapons with a +2 enhancement bonus (1/3 of your caster level) yourself. If you had the Practiced Spellcaster feat from Complete Divine, your caster level (necromancer) would be 11th and allow up to +3 weapons right now (+4 next level). Might be worth thinking about, that's a pretty good feat for a character like yours. In your case it adds a plain +4 bonus to the necromancer caster level to determine spell effects, durations, range, checks to overcome spell resistance, and so on.

However, adding in special abilities, while they are just added to the enhancement bonus to derive the cost, are looked at seperately for prerequisites, that is, you only need to fulfill the caster level requirement of each special ability (listed with the description in the DMG or SRD), plus any spell requirements (though, someone else can help out here, while you still craft the weapon) and the three times enhancement bonus requirement, which does allow to craft a weapon with a total weapon bonus (summed up "pluses") of higher than 1/3 CL. Technically, you could even craft a +10 weapon then, if you have the resources and find enough special abilities with an individual caster level requirement of 7th or lower.

So, what you could do right now would be a +2 Spiked Chain or even a +2 Holy Spiked Chain (a +4 total weapon bonus), if you had someone to cast Holy Smite for you quite a few times (once per 1,000 gp base cost, so at least 16 times, if you would make it +1 first, then add in Holy and then upgrade it to +2), but you will need someone else to add the missing portion altogether, if you cannot fulfill that individual caster level requirement, as for Ghost Touch, for example.

Example prices, if you craft the +2 yourself and then have someone else raise it to +3 or +4 or add in some equivalent special ability:

+2 (8,325 gp) -> 4,325 gp + 320 XP
+3 (18,325 gp) -> 14,325 gp + 320 XP
+4 (32,325 gp) -> 28,325 gp + 320 XP

With Practiced Spellcaster you could make most weapons yourself by now, and you could make the enhancement bonus up to +3 yourself, too.

Hope this makes the whole thing more clear!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Old Fezziwig]

All right. I'll knock it down to +2, as I don't have Complete Divine (and rather like the feats I've chosen). That'll result in a little more cash to spend and xp to play with, but I've got to run now, so that'll wait until late tonight.

thanks,
Nick

 

[Thanee]

For Practiced Spellcaster you could drop Combat Casting, you won't need that, anyways, since you beat the DC of 15+SL for defensive casting on a 1+ already even without the feat.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Old Fezziwig]

Hmm. Something to think about there. Thanks.

Nick

 

[Thanee]

Well, if you consider it, here's what it does in short...

Practiced Spellcaster

Prerequisites: Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Benefit: The caster level for one spellcasting class is increased by +4, but cannot exceed your hit dice.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ashy]

Just for kicks, and because I had the time, I whipped up a potential character for Ashy.

COOL!!!! THANKS! I love it! Now I can't wait to play it!

 

[deadestdai]

Hrm.... My PC has attracted unwanted attention and I now need as total Bios reboot and hard drive reformat. My update of Flaust will have to be after that. :\ I hate viruses.

Sorry all.....

 

[Sephiroth no Miko]

The SRD mentions nothing about an anchor, but it does mention the Ghosts grave-site and that the physical orginals of the ghost's equipment lies there and that they must remain there in order to be usable to the ghost. That's not a magical compulsion, but a practical consideration that could serve as an anchor.

I meant anchor more in a flavor sense (since ghosts are traditionally anchored to the place of their death) rather than any mechanistic sense. But yes, a ghost's physical remains do often serve as their "anchor."

My greatest worry is one of character motivation. What could possibly persuade a person to stick around after his death? Which powerful emotional force could motivate that?

Well, that is one of the tricky things about playing a ghost, I would agree. But you mentioned that your character perhaps was determined to stay in the mortal realms, partly out of fear of what awaited him in the Afterlife, partly determined to be master of his own fate, no matter what. I could see that as an acceptable drive. Ever reading any of the Sandman comics? There's a character in there, Hobbs Gadlin (sp?), who is effectively immortal because, well, he chooses not to die. (Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but the premise remains the same.) It'd be kinda the same... your character sticks around because well, he chooses to, very, very strongly.

There is nothing that could reasonably tie him to any particular item... He could be "protecting a family heirloom" or "a memento from a long lost love", but what sane person would devote his entire existance to that?

But I would argue that ghosts are rarely sane to begin with. There are plenty of ghosts in literature who linger on, long after their reason for doing so is gone. It's not logical (or sane) but people rarely are, and dead people are no exception. Ghosts are usually tragic because of the circumstances of their death and their inability to let go of something or someone or some event.

What would be the point? Wouldn't he simply get over it? Isn't it greater to go out into the infinite multiverse and live, live eternally, tasting life trough a thousand malevolenced possessions?

Perhaps. But wouldn't that make you an evilish body snatcher (unless, of course, you found someone who willingly let you possess them-- but then, who willingly gives up their life so some dead spirit can live theirs)? But to get back to the topic, the whole point about lots of ghosts is that they don't "get over it." When they finally do, that's when they move on (disappear or get put to rest or whatever).

He could be tied to another person, I guess. Love can do strange things to people, and people give up their own lives to obsess over someone else all the time. But that would also be a RP-problem. Whatever he's anchored to has got to be an object of powerful obsession, he has to love absolutely and desperately. (Whether that is romantic love or the love of family would depend on the other character, his race is not set in stone) That would be a tremendous role-playing challenge for me and for the other player who'se character is the object of the obsession. I'm not sure I could make that credible, and I'm not sure that it would be good for the party and the game if I tried.

Hmmm... probably not. Could be an interesting experience, but I agree, it would also carry a large potential for a mess-up. And it's not something I would want to force on a player anyhow.

The fact that he (I) would be completely dependant on another character (player) would reduce him to little more than a cohort. I guess that my character would be ripped away into oblivion as soon as the other character died, wether of violence or old age. And that kind of makes his primary motivation, the obsession for immortality, pointless.

Hmmm... I do agree that it wouldn't be fair to you in that regard. Though I had been actually thinking more that your character could be tied to an item, not a person, and that to travel around, you'd have to 'bargain' with people to carry your item with them (maybe by offering to be a guide? He could have been dead for a while, and seen many places). An option would be an item significant to him in life, but other options could exist too, like an object which captured his soul (maybe like a lich's phylactery?) or even maybe just a piece of him (uh, a fingerbone filigreed in gold and set with gems?).

Still, that would make your character more dependent on the others than usual, which as you've pointed out, isn't quite fair. But if nothing of the above appeals to you at all in role-playing or character wise, I suppose we can look at the option below-- that is, his 'anchor' is his grave-site.

These items would serve to achor the ghost to a specific location, not by magical compulsion but by a practical need to protect his ethereal equipment. The location of his grave would have to be somehow protected or hidden.

I would have thought this would be rather objectionable to you since, well, it sorta forces your character to stay in one place if he wants to protect his equipment. Wouldn't that defeat his purpose of thumbing his nose at death and experience the multiverse?

Having his grave-site as a de-facto anchor would also give him a way to make use of his new-found magical equipment. By returning to his grave and, with some sort of burial-ritual, placing the new equipment in the grave he would create an ethereal copy of the equipment that he could use. Otherwise the wealth-levels in the party would soon become severely unbalanced.

Wouldn't this mean that if the party got new treasure, they would have to go to your character's grave and place it there if he wants to be able to use it? And wouldn't it also mean you'd have to trust the party with the precious information of where your grave is? (But then, I suppose ghostly characters open up a whole can of worms on the equipment front, anyway. )

Serpenteye, if you want to make the character's grave his anchor point, you can. That would be acceptable to me. I personally think some of the other ideas could be really neat, role-playing wise, but I don't want to force anything on you. If this last option is the most comfortable for you, then I say we go with it.

How does that work, btw? The paying off of level adjustment? I don't have whatever book that rule is in, but it sound like I could use that for my character.

I don't have access to my books right now so I can't answer the buying off LA question quite yet. When I get home tonight, I'll try to put up an explanation.

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Sephiroth, Serpenteye, I may have an rather unusual solution for your ghost situation. I've written a prestige class called The Song Ghost, in which a bard literally bonds with a spirit in order to help it complete the task that held it to life. However, for Serpenteye's character, you could turn this PrC on its head. Make the Song Ghost your cohort, and perhaps select an elf or similarly long-lived race so that you can say you've been around for a while. Just a suggestion.

 

[Serpenteye]

Well, that is one of the tricky things about playing a ghost, I would agree. But you mentioned that your character perhaps was determined to stay in the mortal realms, partly out of fear of what awaited him in the Afterlife, partly determined to be master of his own fate, no matter what. I could see that as an acceptable drive. Ever reading any of the Sandman comics? There's a character in there, Hobbs Gadlin (sp?), who is effectively immortal because, well, he chooses not to die. (Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but the premise remains the same.) It'd be kinda the same... your character sticks around because well, he chooses to, very, very strongly.

Yes, that's pretty much his primary motivation.

But I would argue that ghosts are rarely sane to begin with. There are plenty of ghosts in literature who linger on, long after their reason for doing so is gone. It's not logical (or sane) but people rarely are, and dead people are no exception. Ghosts are usually tragic because of the circumstances of their death and their inability to let go of something or someone or some event.

True, true. But the myth about the tragicness and insanity of ghosts is based on the belief that the afterlife is someting positive, a paradise, and that the ghost would be much happier if he was truly dead.
The Planescape afterlife is no such thing. When a person dies they are transformed into petitioners, in the plane of their alignment or deity. Petitiones are mindless slaves who retain no memory of their previous lives and retain none of the qualities, besides their alignment, they had in life. They are effectively recycled life-forms, and no matter the plane they end up in their only duty and responsibility is serving their all important alignment. They are still mindless drones with no free will. Though some of them are elevated to higher forms they are still slaves if their alignment is Good or LN and that goes, for a lesser degree for all alignments. Slaadi are bubbling idiots and fiends, though free willed, are trapped in a destructive system and in their own evil. When they eventually die yet again they are consumed by their plane and utterly destroyed.
And that is a fate worse than un-death, in my character's opinion.

Perhaps. But wouldn't that make you an evilish body snatcher (unless, of course, you found someone who willingly let you possess them-- but then, who willingly gives up their life so some dead spirit can live theirs)?

Kind of, but that would depend on what kind of creatures he posessed. Evil people are generally a lot more interesting than good ones, perhaps he prefers peeking into their heads.

But to get back to the topic, the whole point about lots of ghosts is that they don't "get over it." When they finally do, that's when they move on (disappear or get put to rest or whatever).

Then the "it" has to be something that makes sence, like the refusal to die.

Hmmm... I do agree that it wouldn't be fair to you in that regard. Though I had been actually thinking more that your character could be tied to an item, not a person, and that to travel around, you'd have to 'bargain' with people to carry your item with them (maybe by offering to be a guide? He could have been dead for a while, and seen many places). An option would be an item significant to him in life, but other options could exist too, like an object which captured his soul (maybe like a lich's phylactery?) or even maybe just a piece of him (uh, a fingerbone filigreed in gold and set with gems?).

Still, that would make your character more dependent on the others than usual, which as you've pointed out, isn't quite fair. But if nothing of the above appeals to you at all in role-playing or character wise, I suppose we can look at the option below-- that is, his 'anchor' is his grave-site.

What would happen if the item was destroyed? Could he find another token as an anchor, or would he simply fade away?

I would have thought this would be rather objectionable to you since, well, it sorta forces your character to stay in one place if he wants to protect his equipment. Wouldn't that defeat his purpose of thumbing his nose at death and experience the multiverse?

That's something I'm willing to accept, to a degree, as long as it wasn't an unavoidable magical compulsion but a practical consideration. He would look after his grave as an act of his own free will.
I imagine most adventurers have something they leave behind when they go out adventuring, something they might want to protect, something they will check up on every now and then. It will be the same way for my character, but instead of friends and family it's his grave.

Wouldn't this mean that if the party got new treasure, they would have to go to your character's grave and place it there if he wants to be able to use it? And wouldn't it also mean you'd have to trust the party with the precious information of where your grave is? (But then, I suppose ghostly characters open up a whole can of worms on the equipment front, anyway. )

He would have to go back to his grave to be able to use his new equipment, but that doesn't mean that he would let the other characters go with him, and it's better than getting no new equipment at all. There's not many items made specifically for ghosts, are there? As a Sorcerer he has limited use for Ghost Touch weapons.

Serpenteye, if you want to make the character's grave his anchor point, you can. That would be acceptable to me. I personally think some of the other ideas could be really neat, role-playing wise, but I don't want to force anything on you. If this last option is the most comfortable for you, then I say we go with it.

I would like that . I think that if we made an item his anchor he would have to spend most of his time posessing someone to carry it, and that would really not be using his abilities to their fullest potential.