Planescape Planescape to languish in purgatory?

[Zardnaar]

The depiction of the Inhuman nations of Goblinoids and Orcs generally has them as just being evil, and that might not fit with some of the directions they're going. The depiction of Gnomes leans very much into Krynn's Gnomes with them being unreliable fools. Shou Lung as a space power had some problems, like one example of despite being Toril's China some of them were just too Japanese. I think there were "Space-Gypsies" down to all the bad stereotypes of the Roma, somewhere in the setting. And while they were depicted as villainous there were the Xenos a Neo-Nazi (or Human Supremacist) faction and the Chainmen slavers.

A lot of that's not in the cotrvrules though so can be minimised or redone. Space gnomes can easily be redone as Artificers downplaying or ignoring the Krynn thing.

 

[Weird Dave]

It's hard to see Planescape coming back as a "setting" in the 2e definition. As someone who has been publishing planar content on the DMsGuild for a few years, I've managed to do it because I can sum up the Planescape campaign with three points:

• Sigil is the setting for Planescape, and to a lesser extent the gate-towns in the Outlands. Most Planescape content centered on these places.
• The factions. As has been stated in the thread, the factions were not great, and perhaps a little too tied to specific variations on commonly shared themes. There are ways to make them interesting, sure, but you can't deny they were a major component of the Planescape campaign setting as published.
• The power of belief. This one is much harder to pin down, but there was a key theme of Planescape that defined the planes and existence as relying upon the belief of beings. A place or power's strength was defined by how much people believed in it, but it could be changed. I never really saw much of this in game per se, but it felt like a high-minded theme running through a lot of the supplements.

The planes have been a part of the broader D&D content before Planescape and after it, and they add a sense of connection to the rest of the settings that feels really cool. Spelljammer achieves a similar effect but leans in on the silly, though it really owns it so it's fun for me!

The Planescape setting brought a lot of content around each of the planes with various supplements, but having gone through almost all of them in the past few years, I was struck by how ... empty they felt. A lot of the content for each plane was identifying the changes to specific spells, which is just blech from my standpoint as a DM managing the game. For me, reading through a lot of the material then and now, I was struck by how little was actually useful to me as a DM running the game. It was fun to read, had an attitude, but most of the content was written from the "unreliable narrator" standpoint, which meant parsing usable info was frustrating and difficult. In my 2e gaming days I always wanted to run a Planescape campaign but the books never did me any favors as a DM, so I walked away from most of it. The Manual of the Planes for 3e really brought the planes into focus on how to actually USE them.

 

[Weird Dave]

For me, I'd love to see Greyhawk come back, but focusing on 579 CY Flanaess. Give me a setting on the brink of a massive war, and then give me a storyline outlining that war with mass battle rules and characters involved in high-stakes operations. Eberron has the fantasy post-war setting covered, so I personally have little interest in seeing a Greyhawk campaign set after the Greyhawk Wars.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Absolutely, I'm way too lazy to do the conversions myself, but without those conversions the old settings lose what made them unique in some ways. I've long been somewhat frustrated with the types of products and the format (type and page count) that WotC is putting out and the rate at which they are doing so. I understand why they are doing so as its proved successful and they are targeting a younger demographic. Still that doesn't mean they cant deviate from this from time to time.

Seeing as most of the previous editions books are available on DMs Guild so for the sake of argument here's how I see they could update the old most popular settings with all crunch and no fluff. People who want the fluff can get it elsewhere. For each setting they'd mostly need to update the following:

• Races
• Classes
• Setting unique rules
• Magic/Psionics: Spells, Magical Items, etc
• Monsters

Here what I consider the more popular settings and some either dont need much updating or have already gotten updates.

• Eberron - Updated in RftLW
• Exandria - New setting book
• Forgotten Realms - Updated in SCAG & adventures
• Greyhawk - Besides monsters I dont think much crunch is required and updated in GoS
• Ravenloft - Besides monsters I dont think much crunch is required and updated in CoS

This leaves the settings that need updating that have very specific mechanics that need to be included

• Dark Sun
• Dragonlance
• Planescape
• Spelljammer

I'd prefer hardback or softcover but I'd also support them doing pdfs with POD; they can even offer digital. Whether they address one setting at a time or say a book of races, then monsters for the four settings I think they have more options to consider and still make money than just do a complete update in one hardback per year.

I find it very odd you seem to believe there are more specific mechanics involved in Dragonlance than Ravenloft.

 

[Redwizard007]

I find it very odd you seem to believe there are more specific mechanics involved in Dragonlance than Ravenloft.

DL has setting specific races and classes in addition to the typical setting specific monsters. Magic functions differently than in other settings. The gods actually need statblocks. in addition, there are several eras fit for gameplay that would need statted out.

Ravenloft has a fear mechanic and the Vistani.

Am I missing something?

 

[Demetrios1453]

Planescape theoretically is fine as well but someone will complain about heaven, hell or whatever.

WotC passed that point after talking about both places in the PHB and describing them in some detail in the DMG.

...and then placing virtually an entire adventure in Hell.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

DL has setting specific races and classes in addition to the typical setting specific monsters. Magic functions differently than in other settings. The gods actually need statblocks. in addition, there are several eras fit for gameplay that would need statted out.

Ravenloft has a fear mechanic and the Vistani.

Am I missing something?

The gods have never had statblocks in any DL release, not sure why you would start now.

Magic functions differently in Ravenloft (much bigger differences than you would see in DL, for one), Ravenloft also has changes to class abilities, monsters, magic items, and oodles of setting specific monsters.

 

[Redwizard007]

The gods have never had statblocks in any DL release, not sure why you would start now.

Magic functions differently in Ravenloft (much bigger differences than you would see in DL, for one), Ravenloft also has changes to class abilities, monsters, magic items, and oodles of setting specific monsters.

Deities and Demigods called. They said, "do too," and hung up. Then I heard a voice-mail from Rise of Tiamat that was just a 5 headed dragon goddess crying because she apparently meant nothing to you.

Magic in Ravenloft does have some changes to specific spells, thats true, but Dragonlance has changes to spellcasting mechanics. Then there are Knights of Solomnia, not to mention a half dozen races that are significantly different from classic d&d.

Ravenloft is better done as individual adventures for each domain.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Deities and Demigods called. They said, "do too," and hung up. Then I heard a voice-mail from Rise of Tiamat that was just a 5 headed dragon goddess crying because she apparently meant nothing to you.

Magic in Ravenloft does have some changes to specific spells, thats true, but Dragonlance has changes to spellcasting mechanics. Then there are Knights of Solomnia, not to mention a half dozen races that are significantly different from classic d&d.

Ravenloft is better done as individual adventures for each domain.

There are no Dragonlance deities in Deities and Demigods or Rise of Tiamat. Takhisis is not Tiamat. She has a different personality, home, history and family. Paladine is not Bahamut.

Knights of Solamnia are not any different to various setting specific organisations that one might find in Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk or indeed, Ravenloft. (Knight of the Shadows, for one). The various races of Ansalon are not really that "out there". Kender are hardly very mechanically different from halflings, draconians from dragonborn and minotaurs have already been statted up a few times in 5E already.

The mechanics for spellcasting in Krynn have been represented in various different ways over the years, but "moon magic" (which I assume is what you are referring to) requires little more than a page of information (as it had in 3E) and it is not even applicable to all casters in Krynn. (Sorcerers are not affected by the moons, nor bards, or "novice" or renegade mages). To be honest, it is best represented by a wizard subclass.

 

[Demetrios1453]

There are no Dragonlance deities in Deities and Demigods or Rise of Tiamat. Takhisis is not Tiamat. She has a different personality, home, history and family. Paladine is not Bahamut.

Knights of Solamnia are not any different to various setting specific organisations that one might find in Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk or indeed, Ravenloft. (Knight of the Shadows, for one). The various races of Ansalon are not really that "out there". Kender are hardly very mechanically different from halflings, draconians from dragonborn and minotaurs have already been statted up a few times in 5E already.

The mechanics for spellcasting in Krynn have been represented in various different ways over the years, but "moon magic" (which I assume is what you are referring to) requires little more than a page of information (as it had in 3E) and it is not even applicable to all casters in Krynn. (Sorcerers are not affected by the moons, nor bards, or "novice" or renegade mages). To be honest, it is best represented by a wizard subclass.

The Knights of Solamnia would likely require an entirely different class, plus three subclasses. It would be very hard to add them to a fighter or paladin chassis. In a pinch, it could be done, but the subclasses required would require enough modification to the original class that it would probably take up a roughly equivalent amount of text as would adding an entirely new class anyway.

In the end, it's pretty obvious that both Ravenloft and Dragonlance would require significant rules modification to base 5e rules, and, unless both were to be published and we actually get a page count, it would be hard to determine which would need more. I'm not sure what material purpose an inter-setting peeing match over this matter serves in the end...