Playable character without magic items: possible ?

[irdeggman]

Dannyalcatraz,

Do you see the contradiction contained in these statements?

Quote:
"Having a character in the party who has taken a vos of poverty should not mean that other party members get bigger shares of treasure!" actually means that they may or that it is acceptable for this to happen?



No, because of his vow, the ascetic would be:

1) forced to either take his share, keeping only that which he needs for sustinence and donating the rest

or

2) allowed to abandon or even destroy his share, assuming that he doesn't allow the other PCs to take it.

Basically how I read your response is that it is unacceptable for the rest of the party to gain a benefit (treasure-wise) from an ascetic character

but

That character can merely leave his sharing lying around and "allow" the rest of the party "to claim it".

Also an ascetic character is not allowed "keeping only that which he needs for sustinence" it is actually more specific than that.

There is a specific "list" of items that an asectic can have and that includes only enough food to sustain him for a single day, the other can be interpreted in much broader way (like say a week's worth of rations is needed to sustain him, so is a sleeping bag and tent (since it protects him from the weather, etc. Sleeping bags and tents are not on the "list". Some people want to take a broader approach to what the ascetic can have (and that can work for house-rules) but since there is a specific "list" that (per teh RAW) overrides this type of apporach.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Would an Incarnum using class (Incarnate or Totemist) be able to use his soulmelds normally, I wonder? I would think so, because they are not magic items. And do they still gain the bonuses of both? That would be wicked awesome!

If they were, it would be totally unfair to the rest of the party

Again, trying to replace magic with other powers kind of avoids the point of this thread.

Just like the VOP hijack.

 

[Kwitchit]

About forsaker and VoP: it doesn't matter anyway. You get DR from VoP anyway, and it's about as good, especially as forsaker DR is 3.0 and DRs tended to be higher then.

Note: I know BoED is 3.0 as well, but it's late 3.0 and VoP gives you DR/magic rather than DR/+X

 

[Darklone]

A wizard without scrolls? Something just doesn't seem right about that picture to me.

Druids can do fine, at least until higher levels.

Right, I assumed the wizard would at least be allowed to scribe scrolls himself.

 

[irdeggman]

Right, I assumed the wizard would at least be allowed to scribe scrolls himself.

Ahh but it is still a "magic item". Regardless if he made it himself (a wizard gets those bonus metamagic or item creation feats). So without magic items he must take metamagic feats.

 

[avigor]

Things like the Forsaker class, special weapon/armor materials, spellcasting power components (if a spellcaster), alchemical items and weapons enhancements (like Magic of Eberron's Alchemy Blade), the Trophy Collector feat (PHB2; grants some bonuses, takes up magic item slots that aren't going to be used), Dwarvencraft items (more durable versions of any metal items, from Races of Stone), and the Master class knacks should do the trick.

The last on the list there allows masterwork equipment of up to a +5 bonus, buildable only by someone who's taken a bunch of levels (at least 13 for a full +5) in the Master (craftsman) class, described in DragonLance: War of the Lance. Weapons still only get the +5 to attack and not to damage without special materials, though.

Here's an example weapon: Arcanite Dwarvencraft Alchemy Blade of Legend. +5 to attack, +1 to damage, +1 to crit range after other modifiers, and it can be used with alchemical fire or alchemical frost for elemental damage, although acidic fire or alchemist's spark will destroy the weapon (or at least the alchemical part . . .) if used instead of fire or frost. Looks like it wouldn't fall completely behind, although it might lag slightly. Arcanite's from the Warcraft RPG, adds +9,000 to the base price. Can weapons other than shortswords be made into Alchemy Blades? I'm guessing yes, but I'm not sure what it would cost.





On a side note: Someone above mentioned combining soulmelds with magic items. There is a feat in Magic of Incarnum called Split Chakra that allows one slot to make use of a magic item and a soulmeld in the same slot, and Double Chakra allows two soulmelds to be used on the same slot; by the look of it, taking both for the same slot could allow for up to 2 soulmelds and 1 magic item, not counting the extra magic item slot epic feat.

 

[Meeki]

To the OP!!

Hi! I hope you got through all the BS about VoP and the forsaker. Anyways if you want to play a non-magic item heavy or non-magic item game I think that would be a great challenge for you and your group. As a DM you would have to keep this in mind that a party of 4 level 8 heroes is not as powerful as the normal level 8 heroes that you would normally DM. So throw them up against monsters with DR would be fine and the spellcasters would now have to be able to cast magic weapon and the like, however this would drain more resources than normal.

If you were going to do this I would think of a few additions to your games. Perhaps allow scrolls/potions still. Maybe add in a few feats that allow physical attacks to penetrate as magic, alignment, etc; so the fighters, rogues, rangers etc aren't screwed. I know there are plenty of resource books out there with feats such as these.

If the party ever fights a creature with high SR and damage reduction the fight will be exponentially more difficult without magic items. Just keep this in mind when DMing.

I expect many of your players may take a few levels in a spell casting class, probably cleric, just go snag magic weapon and other buffing abilities. Your game might become one of mass buffing before combat unless the monsters are substantially altered. On the other hand the game could be more social/rp oriented since fighting would be so dangerous.

 

[avigor]

I forgot something: the Puritan prestige class. Only for LN, highly religious chars. It's in Ultimate Prestige Classes, vol. 1, Mongoose Publishing. It grants SR, the ability to sense magic, DR penetration, and some dispel magic abilities. It's also a no-magic-whatsoever class, but it is an alternative to the forsaken class, albeit one I wouldn't prefer.

 

[JiCi]

Hi! I hope you got through all the BS about VoP and the forsaker. Anyways if you want to play a non-magic item heavy or non-magic item game I think that would be a great challenge for you and your group. As a DM you would have to keep this in mind that a party of 4 level 8 heroes is not as powerful as the normal level 8 heroes that you would normally DM. So throw them up against monsters with DR would be fine and the spellcasters would now have to be able to cast magic weapon and the like, however this would drain more resources than normal.

If you were going to do this I would think of a few additions to your games. Perhaps allow scrolls/potions still. Maybe add in a few feats that allow physical attacks to penetrate as magic, alignment, etc; so the fighters, rogues, rangers etc aren't screwed. I know there are plenty of resource books out there with feats such as these.

If the party ever fights a creature with high SR and damage reduction the fight will be exponentially more difficult without magic items. Just keep this in mind when DMing.

I expect many of your players may take a few levels in a spell casting class, probably cleric, just go snag magic weapon and other buffing abilities. Your game might become one of mass buffing before combat unless the monsters are substantially altered. On the other hand the game could be more social/rp oriented since fighting would be so dangerous.

Thanks for the advice !

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Do you see the contradiction contained in these statements?

"Having a character in the party who has taken a vos of poverty should not mean that other party members get bigger shares of treasure!" actually means that they may or that it is acceptable for this to happen?

No, because of his vow, the ascetic would be:

1) forced to either take his share, keeping only that which he needs for sustinence and donating the rest

or

2) allowed to abandon or even destroy his share, assuming that he doesn't allow the other PCs to take it.

Nope.

Basically how I read your response is that it is unacceptable for the rest of the party to gain a benefit (treasure-wise) from an ascetic character

but

That character can merely leave his sharing lying around and "allow" the rest of the party "to claim it".

Then you're misreading my post. I explicitly say that he can choose not to take his share, but he cannot allow the others to take it in his stead.

How that is handled in game is a case-specific issue- he could even go so far as to strike away a partymember's hand that reaches for what he chooses to leave behind.

Also an ascetic character is not allowed "keeping only that which he needs for sustinence" it is actually more specific than that. <snip>

I didn't see a need to reproduce the specific list in its entirety, but it amounts to only what he needs for sustinence. The rest is merely details.