Player/DM Issues: Please Help!

[clark411]

I agree that he misinterpreted the rules for Knowledge.

With knowledge, if you beat a DC of 10 + monster's HD you remember some pertinent information about them. He just had you see something. For every 5 you beat the DC by, you get another bit of information, so if those Scions had 1-3 HD you should have gotten more.

That said, I wouldn't say this mistake killed you. Engaging two undead in melee with half your party running the other way did that. Letting worms burrow into your skin = bad, unless it was something more than a heal check to remove them- something really bizarre, I can't pin the blame on the DM in this.

Sorry if you end up rolling a new character, although electing to play an Extraplanar non-native Outsider pretty much made doing so a near inevitability.

Also.. check with him to make sure those worms work on Outsiders if you haven't. I don't have my Monsters of Faerun so can't check for myself.

 

[Wycen]

You are alive. Enjoy it and move on.

We just recently had something like this happen in our game. A party member was killed in battle, we couldn't reach his body, (too many wizards spoil the pot, or in this case web/black tentacles/area denial spell the area). In this game there is no raise dead. So, the DM was in a bind. He was originally going to send us off on a side quest and had dragged me into a separate room to talk to, (I'm playing the cleric so I guess if you are important enough you can get raised somehow).

But before we could get very far, the player of the dead character remembered he'd cast a spell on the monster that killed him that debilitated it, so it shouldn't have been able to attack.

So, the DM decided to split the difference and allow the character to live, but with 1 level lost, essentially as though he'd died and been raised.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

One of the PCs (me) had Knowledge (Religion) and I used the skill as a free action once I had moved up to the Scions of Kyuss. I rolled an 18 (after modifers) which should give me some "pertinent" information about undead creatures.

My DM told me something to the effect that, "You notice that they have worms crawling out their eye sockets and nose."

So, here's my question: Shouldn't the successful Knowledge (Religion) roll given me something more pertinent than the above quote from our DM? Should he have said, "You know that these creatures can transform their victims into Scions very fast using the worms infesting their undead bodies." Since my PC is somewhat familar with undead, I know that you have 24 h before you are turned to spawn in most cases. So wouldn't this be an unusal and "pertinent" exception?

If that was said, I believe, I would have run away with the rest of my party or have used ranged weapons.

Thoughts?

In our game, it depends on how high you roll. So if you make your knowledge roll and roll a natural 20 you'd get as much detail as possible. If you get a natural 15 you get some info but perhaps not that much, leaving it up to the PCs best judgement whether to confront or back off. The lower you roll, the less info you get. Makes sense. An 18 is high but if it's with modifiers it might not have been high enough for your DM.

 

[storyguide3]

In our game, it depends on how high you roll. So if you make your knowledge roll and roll a natural 20 you'd get as much detail as possible. If you get a natural 15 you get some info but perhaps not that much, leaving it up to the PCs best judgement whether to confront or back off. The lower you roll, the less info you get. Makes sense. An 18 is high but if it's with modifiers it might not have been high enough for your DM.

What difference should it make if modifiers are involved? If you only use the natural roll, putting ranks into knowledge skills is pretty much a waste (if I'm undrstanding how you do it).

At any rate, what the player got in this case was a description. He got no value from his Knowledge roll that he could not have gotten from a proper description of the creature at close range. A more approporiate response from the DM might have been "You see that there are worms crawling in and out of their eye sockets and noses. You recall hearing about creatures such as these. The worms are very dangerous, though you cannot remember exactly how." Not too much info, but enough to give a character pause.

 

[S'mon]

I think what you got was bunk -- you can SEE they have worms crawling all over them. But I don't think you should have gotten the information you were looking for about their particulars with a result of 18.

I agree with this. It's not like they were standard undead like wraiths or spectres. OTOH a Kno roll shouldn't affect what you can see with your own eyes. Maybe 'the worms could be dangerous' would've been reasonable.

BTW 'Scions'? What happened to the Sons?

 

[Piratecat]

Is undead knowledge specifically covered under knowledge (religion), instead of something like knowledge (undead)? I probably would have given you some info about Kyuss or his cult, not about how the undead work.

that being said, having a worm crawl onto you is BAD, and a flag to back away and use missile weapons post haste!

 

[Thanatos]

I have to echo sentiments here.

If your campaign supports Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Undead), I probably wouldn't have given you the information about the worms.

If your campaign doesn't support the two and only has Knowledge (Religion) then I would have included some vague information concerning the worms being part of the mystic right involved/interwined with the undead.

I think what you got was a Spot check more then anything.

Also, I don't think it should have mattered what you rolled initially, unless it was a natural 20...it is the value of the roll + the Knowledge Ranks, the 18, that matters...and that really should have given you more.

But it is your DM's world...and the best thing to do is either take the 'Grace' and accept the rescue or go ahead and refuse it and make a new character.

I'd also recommend you two take a monent to discuss your view on the issue with him and get things squared away so it doesn't lead to you building up a pool of resentment.

 

[Umbran]

Is undead knowledge specifically covered under knowledge (religion), instead of something like knowledge (undead)?

In 3.0 core rules, there is no explicit Knowledge (undead). In the 3.5e SRD, knowledge of undead types is specifically listed as being under Knowledge (religion).

My guess is that there should have been some compromise here. Viewing the worms is not the result of knowledge, but of Spot or Search. Whether or not the full details of "worms = spawning" would have been available is a DM call. A better solution would have been for the knowledge check to reveal that the undead do spawn, but not give the details on how. Then a Spot check to notice the worms, and then allow the player to put two and two together.

Of course, hindsight is an exact science. It's easy for us to play armchair dungeon master.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

What difference should it make if modifiers are involved? If you only use the natural roll, putting ranks into knowledge skills is pretty much a waste (if I'm undrstanding how you do it).

The way we do it, there's a big difference between a 20 and , say, a 29. Someone who has modifiers in a certain field of knowledge is going to have a better chance of knowing something, than a pc who just happened to roll lucky. Makes sense to me. Some people don't play that way.

I rolled a natural 19 the other night in a game and that only gave me minimal knowledge compared to someone who rolled a natural 16 but had a +7 in that field.

Of course, some DMs might say that the PC who has no modifiers just happened to have heard and picked up on something in their travels and therefore knows as much as someone who has ranks. Depends on the DM.

 

[Nightfall]

I think my problem with this is much like everyone else. He didn't get anything other than seeing there are bunch of worms on them.