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Level Up (A5E) Player Durability?

Filthy Lucre

Explorer
Howdy All,

I recently re-discovered LU5e and it's really grabbed my interest. I was wondering, since there's a lot of info to comb through, if anyone could just comment on how durable PCs are expected to be? One of my biggest gripes with 5e (and the reason I play PF2e) is that PCs seem super, super, SUPER durable - to the point where player's just don't ever feel threatened.

How are threat levels shaping up in LU5e?
 

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Howdy All,

I recently re-discovered LU5e and it's really grabbed my interest. I was wondering, since there's a lot of info to comb through, if anyone could just comment on how durable PCs are expected to be? One of my biggest gripes with 5e (and the reason I play PF2e) is that PCs seem super, super, SUPER durable - to the point where player's just don't ever feel threatened.

How are threat levels shaping up in LU5e?
I think there are probably too many unknowns at this point to draw a reasonable guess. Once monster previews get to W (wraith) we might have some clues on some
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
Howdy All,

I recently re-discovered LU5e and it's really grabbed my interest. I was wondering, since there's a lot of info to comb through, if anyone could just comment on how durable PCs are expected to be? One of my biggest gripes with 5e (and the reason I play PF2e) is that PCs seem super, super, SUPER durable - to the point where player's just don't ever feel threatened.

How are threat levels shaping up in LU5e?
I think it's intended to be balanced similarly to O5E, but it will probably be much, much easier to slide the threat toggle up. From what I've seen, the encounter-building guidelines are much easier to understand and the CRs are more strictly defined. You should be able to monkey with the threat level to suit your taste. (Also, I have a feeling that things will "feel" more threatening, even if they are not, what with Fatigue and Strife being involved as a result of combat before you get to Death.) One of the "problems" with feeling threatened in O5E is that you're either dead, or you're FINE (for the most part).
 

Filthy Lucre

Explorer
I think it's intended to be balanced similarly to O5E, but it will probably be much, much easier to slide the threat toggle up. From what I've seen, the encounter-building guidelines are much easier to understand and the CRs are more strictly defined. You should be able to monkey with the threat level to suit your taste. (Also, I have a feeling that things will "feel" more threatening, even if they are not, what with Fatigue and Strife being involved as a result of combat before you get to Death.) One of the "problems" with feeling threatened in O5E is that you're either dead, or you're FINE (for the most part).
Well, I'll keep a close eye on the kickstarter. Pretty disappointed that opportunity attacks are still hella, hella nerfed but... we'll stay open minded.
 

Well, I'll keep a close eye on the kickstarter. Pretty disappointed that opportunity attacks are still hella, hella nerfed but... we'll stay open minded.
Too many maneuvers mention AoOs to think there aren't some changes or hooks for optional changes in that regard. It cold be optimism but it's just too prevalent to think the o5e near removal of them will remain
 


Uni-the-Unicorn!

Adventurer
Howdy All,

I recently re-discovered LU5e and it's really grabbed my interest. I was wondering, since there's a lot of info to comb through, if anyone could just comment on how durable PCs are expected to be? One of my biggest gripes with 5e (and the reason I play PF2e) is that PCs seem super, super, SUPER durable - to the point where player's just don't ever feel threatened.

How are threat levels shaping up in LU5e?
PCs should have the same level of durability. I will say that my DM doesn’t have any issue with smacking us around, so I am not sure what issue your having with PCs being too durable. I feel like we fall pretty easy!
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
Well, I'll keep a close eye on the kickstarter. Pretty disappointed that opportunity attacks are still hella, hella nerfed but... we'll stay open minded.
Too many maneuvers mention AoOs to think there aren't some changes or hooks for optional changes in that regard. It cold be optimism but it's just too prevalent to think the o5e near removal of them will remain

Yeah, I think they might be nerfed (when compared to 3e or even 4e) for most characters, but it looks like in Level Up they might be back in full swing for classes with combat maneuvers.
 


Uni-the-Unicorn!

Adventurer
I think it's intended to be balanced similarly to O5E, but it will probably be much, much easier to slide the threat toggle up. From what I've seen, the encounter-building guidelines are much easier to understand and the CRs are more strictly defined. You should be able to monkey with the threat level to suit your taste. (Also, I have a feeling that things will "feel" more threatening, even if they are not, what with Fatigue and Strife being involved as a result of combat before you get to Death.) One of the "problems" with feeling threatened in O5E is that you're either dead, or you're FINE (for the most part).
They also added back the bloodied state, in 4e that was PCs started to feel a bit worried
 

Corrosive

Adventurer
Too many maneuvers mention AoOs to think there aren't some changes or hooks for optional changes in that regard. It cold be optimism but it's just too prevalent to think the o5e near removal of them will remain
What's wrong with opportunity attacks in O5E? Reaction to hit a foe who moves out of your reach.
 



dave2008

Legend
That's the problem. They removed too many other things that should provoke them & that does a lot of damage to grid combat. On that note though, the provoke/does not provoke wording is in use in a lot of maneuvers as well
Yes, I personally like it being gate-keeped by maneuvers.
 

dave2008

Legend
Howdy All,

I recently re-discovered LU5e and it's really grabbed my interest. I was wondering, since there's a lot of info to comb through, if anyone could just comment on how durable PCs are expected to be? One of my biggest gripes with 5e (and the reason I play PF2e) is that PCs seem super, super, SUPER durable - to the point where player's just don't ever feel threatened.

How are threat levels shaping up in LU5e?
If you want to recreate the PF2 deadliness in 5e you need to attack the monster side of things, not the PC side of things. In PF2 a monster becomes deadly in the +3-5 level range. In 5e that equates to the +6-10 CR range.
If you are throwing a CR 24 Ancient red dragon at your lvl 14 -15 part of 4 (which actually works out RAW in 5e, see: It's not Deadly, its Epic) your group will likely feel the pain.

So, on that front, since PCs are supposed to compatible. I don't think there will be any change on the PC side, although the bloodied state may make PCs feel more vulnerable. Now, from what I have seen the LevelUp monsters are not particularly more deadly. However, we have seen so few to know for sure, and from what the previewed from the encounter building guidelines, I think that is where they are tackling it. I would imagine that my suggest of +6-10 for the CR compared to party level will still hold.
 

Faolyn

Hero
From what we've seen, the monsters have a lot more abilities than they do in 05e. Of course, if you're really worried about encounters being too easy, just run tougher encounters. More monsters, or give them extra abilities.
 

Nebulous

Legend
PCs should have the same level of durability. I will say that my DM doesn’t have any issue with smacking us around, so I am not sure what issue your having with PCs being too durable. I feel like we fall pretty easy!
I agree. I frequently knock PCs to their asses. I have to hold back not to kill them actually. I don't generally run games past 8th or 9th level though. If you get that high and higher then they're much, much harder to kill and have too many tricks to keep standing. It gets to be a player/DM competition of rules mastery and I stop enjoying the game.
 

dave2008

Legend
If you get that high and higher then they're much, much harder to kill and have too many tricks to keep standing. It gets to be a player/DM competition of rules mastery and I stop enjoying the game.
Actually my players are 15th level now and I don't have any problem with knocking them around if the situation calls for it.
 

Nebulous

Legend
Actually my players are 15th level now and I don't have any problem with knocking them around if the situation calls for it.
I'm sure it can be done, but I have so little experience running games that high I wouldn't even know how to balance it. Is that one red dragon or two hiding in the closet?
 

Faolyn

Hero
I'm sure it can be done, but I have so little experience running games that high I wouldn't even know how to balance it. Is that one red dragon or two hiding in the closet?
The key is to play the creature smart. A dragon has no reason to land. It can use its breath weapon and circle out of range of the PCs' weapons until it recharges. If it uses more physical attacks, it can aim for spellcasters. Things like that.
 

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