Player Ostracism: Advice Needed

[BigTom]

The thing that strikes me in this is that everyone is assuming the other players just don't like Spud's style. Since you don't spend a lot of time with them, there could very well be more to this that they haven't told you. Before you do anything, I would approach the group and find out if there is a problem beyond a clash of styles.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

I totally agree with your decision.

Besides, their passive-aggressive behavior in this situation paves the way for a dysfunctional game. Asking you to withhold information from a friend in that way just isn't cool.

 

[S'mon]

I think my conclusion is: thank the Guys for the invite, but tell them you're not interested in playing without Spud. You might ask if there's a particular problem with Spud that may be fixable.

Again, advertising for a group in your area usually works. If you're in a town or city there will be other people looking for a group to join. Do be on your best behaviour when you meet prospective new players - be showered, wear clean 'neutral' clothing (no hentai t-shirts), be polite & sociable.

 

[JoeGKushner]

That's why you ask the Guys if you can talk to Spud. Tell them you won't play with Spud not knowing that they really should be more grown up about it and not sneaking behind the guys back. Take the moral high road with them.

The moral high ground... aka not being a weasel.

It's amazing how often this type of issue comes up.

 

[reveal]

The moral high ground... aka not being a weasel.

It's amazing how often this type of issue comes up.

Don't discourage the boy. Weaseling out of things is what separates man from the rest of the animals....except the weasel.

 

[JesterPoet]

If I may add something.

I was once the instigator of what The Guys are doing.

We did it. Our "Spud" found out, and we are no longer friends.

I wish someone in our group had the balls to do exactly what Crothian suggested. It would have saved a lot of hurt all around. I'm not trying to shift the blame... but, rather, trying to support the idea that Crothian has proposed.

On the other hand... don't take the "Moral High Ground" so far that you just go and tell Spud, leaving The Guys to fend for themselves. Discussing your discomfort with them first, and trying to resolve it that way is, by far, the best solution.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Advice on Ostracizing a Player

1. Talk bad about him behind his back to get everyone else on your side and against him.
2. Never invite him to group functions.
3. If he shows up anyway, pointedly ignore his presence and talk bad about him to other people where he can hear you.
4. Since this type of behavior will likely provoke your victim, use his reactions as an example of his boorish behavior and a clear indicator to others that he should be ostracized.
5. Make efforts to find or invent examples of him cheating so that others will not want him around during games.
6. Invent stories about his sexuality and/or hygiene that will turn others against him.
7. If he has a significant other who is part of the group, work to turn that person against him by making up stories about his infidelity. Provide doctored photographs as proof if necessary.
8. If anyone tries to take the victim's side, subject them to increasing degrees of the same treatment until they stop defending your victim or they become ostracized as well.

OK, so, that's not what you really wanted, but how could I resist a title like that: Player Ostracism: Advice Needed.

So, seriously . . .

1. The Guys need to grow a pair of balls (one pair each, preferably) and talk to Spud. They should tell him they don't want to game with him, why they don't want to game with him, but that otherwise they are cool with hanging out with him.
2. If you want to play DnD and this is your only outlet . . . go for it.
3. If Spud's presence at the game will detract from everyone else's fun . . . he's not invited. Why in the HELL would you play a game with someone you don't like playing with? Games are fun . . . friend-drama is not fun. Games and friend-drama don't mix.
4. I would absolutely tell Spud that I am playing DnD with The Guys and that they (and I?) didn't invite him . . . and I'd tell him why. If he's really a friend he's got to understand that a game is for fun and if he's not fun . . . WTF? How simple is this?

Someone already mentioned the Geek Social Fallacies (http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html). You don't have to play DnD with your friend in order for him to continue being your friend. I have friends that I drink beer with, but that I would never invite to a DnD game. I have a couple of DnD friends that I would never go drink beer with. My geek friends are for gaming . . . they are not my party friends. They understand that. My board game geek friends are for board games . . . not DnD or partying. They understand that (or don't care about it). Anyhow, you get the picture. Spud does not have to be involved in every part of your social/entertainment life to be a friend.

 

[Treebore]

If he is your friend then honesty is important, right? If he is your friend he is more important than a game and your not so good friends, right?

Tell him what is going on. See what he says and does, letting him know you want to play. He'll be offended by them, but he probably will have no problems with you playing with them.
As long as you two still do your friend stuff.

If the other guys give you crap about being enough of an adult to be honest and open with a friend, I suggest you go find some adults to be friends with.

If they were truly mature they would have invited your friend to play, but sat down and made it clear to him that if he behaved in the bad ways he used to, then he is out, would be the mature thing to do, the real and honest friend thing to do.

Real friends accept each others faults, as long as they are legal and don't endanger others, and realize what they can and cannot do together. Its also called maturity. So if everyone is actually a mature adult you will all be able to be open with each others problems, and if you can't help your friend work at his "bad" gaming behaviors, then he and the rest of you should be mature enough to realize he can't play D&D with all of you, but you can have a good time doing everything else together. No hard feelings.

Lies and deceit betweeen friends isn't a real friendship. Its a convenient "buddy" to do things with. Honesty and genuine friendship need not apply.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

You've gotten really good advice above so I won't repeat it. But I do have one question: What kind of jerky "friends" are these? They are supposed to be Spuds friend yet don't have the balls enough to say "We like you but don't like your playing style so you can't come to the table?"

Sounds to me like they're jerks, not friends. Tell these guys no and then tell Spud what they did. Heck, show him the e-mail. He deserves to know that his "friends" are trying to sneak around behind his back.

I haven't finished reading the thread yet, and, reveal, I'm only picking on you because over the last few weeks, it seems to me that you're the one to pick on when somebody gets an attitude, not because what you've said is subtantially different than the consensus.

Confession: I, too, have just not-invited players back to the game. I never tried to keep the game a secret, per se - at least not that I can remember - but I sometimes don't want to make a big deal of the fact that I don't want any particular player to join us. If the Guys don't want to game with Spud, that's fine. They don't have to want to game with him and they don't have to invite him. They also don't have to make a big deal of telling him "WE don't like you. You can't play with us. " I think that it's very decent of them not to go out of their way to hurt Spud's feelings.

That said, I believe that the right course of action is to not tell Spud about the game, but to tell the guys that, while you'd really like to play again, you don't feel comfortable excluding Spud, and that you won't join them. Thank them again for the invite, and let them know that you'll still be enthusiastic to join them next time if they want to either invite Spud or to tell him that they're going to play without him.

I know how tempting it is to get together again with an old group, and how hard it is to do without, but you might think about how you'll feel later:

Either the Guys will know that you stick up for your friends, even if you'd rather not have to,

or

You'll always wonder if Spud will find out, or already has, and knows that you're not the friend he took you for.

oh, and you will or won't miss out on a night of gaming with firends.

 

[JoeGKushner]

If they were truly mature they would have invited your friend to play, but sat down and made it clear to him that if he behaved in the bad ways he used to, then he is out, would be the mature thing to do, the real and honest friend thing to do..

I disagree with this. One of my friends for example, likes modern era super hero games in the vein of Image comics while It end to run a Silver Age game. Why would I want that player in a game he's not going to enjoy and worse, ruin for others? Or what if the other players simply don't like him? The PC thing of we must all get along is truly only for those lonely and desperate for a game. Why ruin 4 players fun to include 1? Not my style.

Real friends accept each others faults, as long as they are legal and don't endanger others, and realize what they can and cannot do together. Its also called maturity. So if everyone is actually a mature adult you will all be able to be open with each others problems, and if you can't help your friend work at his "bad" gaming behaviors, then he and the rest of you should be mature enough to realize he can't play D&D with all of you, but you can have a good time doing everything else together. No hard feelings.

Lies and deceit betweeen friends isn't a real friendship. Its a convenient "buddy" to do things with. Honesty and genuine friendship need not apply.

This I agree with. Sometimes I've noticed though, one of my friends said that D&D can be like a crack house where the people aren't really friends, just playing to get their 'fix' of the game in, and I bet that's where a lot of these types of situations crop up.