Player so afraid PC will die that she's not having fun

[MonsterMash]

Lots of useful responses here. Thank you. I should say at this point that, as Hjorimir mentioned, I have a tendency to make encounters that are meaningful to the plot more difficult than necessary, and when I forget to be mindful of this tendency players can suffer from overly difficult foes. This tendency is a habit I've developed over the years to compensate for the brilliant tactical maneuvers and excellent teamwork my old school friends commit on a regular basis; with them I tend to tune up the CR and/or EL of encounters, because they are often not sufficiently challenged by level-appropriate foes. My new group, of course, is the complete opposite, and those who have suggested that I ramp down the CRs and ELs of encounters are absolutely right, and going forward I intend to adopt this strategy until they become more comfortable with the rules. Thanks for that tip.

Yeah, I make lots of mistakes, both mechanical and judgmental. I accept this about myself and work to not allow hubris to get in the way of equity when it's pointed out to me that I have erred.

Finally, I agree that the PC-killing jokes ended up being counter-productive, and I no longer say them. Instead, I try to be encouraging without giving away the farm. I think I will take up the suggestion to lower CRs on the whole for a while, to help them build up some confidence. I will also include fewer do-or die scenarios.

Very useful commentary. Thanks again.

ForceUser, glad to see that you are trying to make the changes necessary to work on this different group. Its good to be willing to keep learning.

Personally I'd go with the Fate Point system that S'mon suggests, and am introducing something like this into my D&D campaign.

Actually I think looking at this advice has made me think a lot about my GMing style and how I approach the game which is always a good thing.

 

[reanjr]

I kill characters frequently (once a month maybe?) - it's part of the fun. Maybe it's because I'm almost always a DM and used to losing characters, but I never understood the attachment some players have with their characters. None of my group suffers from that malady. I guess if they did, they'd get over it quickly or quit the game.

Interestingly enough, though, I have only had a TPK once (in Alternity; and that was because a player blew up the ship). I never overpower the characters, they just sometimes make bad decisions on an individual basis.

You could try intentionally laying off of that character for a little while, see if she lightens up a bit. Or just kill the character and get it over with. The dread of losing a character may be much greater than the loss felt when the character is gone.

 

[S'mon]

Personally I'd go with the Fate Point system that S'mon suggests, and am introducing something like this into my D&D campaign.

Hi MonsterMash - glad you like my FP system, since I'm planning to use it in the new Lost City of Barakus game you're joining. See you on Sunday!

When I used it in my Conan game it seemed to work well, except I let a PC use FPs to stay standing & keep fighting at negative hps - he blew through all his FPs and died in the next battle. I'll not do that again.

When I used it in my high-level D&D game that had gained a rep as a 'killer' game (with players often paralysed by fear), it helped a lot in letting everyone, including me, relax and see the game as less adversarial. I don't think an FP ever even got spent, but we went from PC deaths most sessions to no PC deaths after that, and it was certainly more fun for everyone.

 

[ironmani]

Heres my two cents..... try putting together an adventure that basicly a murder mystery. There is an old, and I mean OLD Dungeon adventure about a murder at an Inn where thing arent what they seem. (Read doppelganger) Look thru some Dungeons to get ideas. The Contest of Heroes, or something along those lines, is a great mini adventure to run them thru. no one if killed, you get some exp., and you get to have a good time. I was in a party that ran thru it and was crying I was laughing so hard. It really was a good time. Another thing, I know its your style to "Let the dice fall where they may." but every once in a while, fudge. I swear I had one night where I rolled nothing under 17 and I rolled multiple crits. Now it would have been easy to make it a TPK, but I would scowl and go "Damn I suck tonight." Now I now saying coddle your players, but sometimes you need to cut them some slack......
Anyway....keep trying....things will come around
As a side note, what kind of character does the girl/woman play? You could talk to her OOC and suggest she incoperate her gloom and fear of death into her character to give her character some...well character!

 

[The Merciful]

How about Ghostwalk?

I don't think anyone has mentioned Ghostwalk yet. Just pointing out that death doesn't need to be the end...

 

[ForceUser]

I'll second this. My players of level 5 scrounged up enough gold for a Raise Dead last game, actually. It wasn't painless for them, but between the three of them, they could afford it (temples generally take magial items at full value as trade for the spells).

The group is level 5-6 and raise dead is certainly an option, provided they are close enough to civilization to find a temple with a sufficiently high level priest. Unfortunately, they have no party cleric, and thus no character who casts gentle repose. Until they gain a few levels, a death in the wilderness is likely a permanent death.

 

[Numion]

The group is level 5-6 and raise dead is certainly an option, provided they are close enough to civilization to find a temple with a sufficiently high level priest. Unfortunately, they have no party cleric, and thus no character who casts gentle repose. Until they gain a few levels, a death in the wilderness is likely a permanent death.

Might the lack of party cleric play a part in this fear of death? My group likes playing clerics, so there usually is two of them in a group. Makes combats a little bit less lethal.

My opinion on this is though that you should really pop the cherry and start killing more PCs. Reward good tactics (which indecision rarely is) but keep the heat up. This leads to evolutionary attachment to PCs - you get only attached to PCs that stay alive, so you need to fear their death. Don't get me wrong, my current DM offs around 1-2 PCs a session, and I would hate it if my PC died, but we all take it in stride. Part of the game. Teach it to your players.

 

[ForceUser]

Might the lack of party cleric play a part in this fear of death? My group likes playing clerics, so there usually is two of them in a group. Makes combats a little bit less lethal.

Between the bard, the druid and the favored soul they have plenty of healing; they just don't happen to have a character that can cast gentle repose.

 

[DragonLancer]

I don't know the situation of the TPK in question, and I doubt you do either. That said, I have no problem with running a tough game (and I think my players would agree that I don't do them any favors), but a TPK is not the inevitable result in a challenging game.

A TPK is not a "random death". A TPK means the party, either through DM oversight or player misjudgement, was grossly outmatched, and the DM figured killing the entire party was suitable.

I know only as much as you.
I never said that the TPK is the inevitable result. Like any DM I want my players to succeed, grow, level up, and finish the compaign. I just don't agree with holding their hand. If they do something stupid, or the dice roll badly for them, then it happens.

As long as the DM has not gone out of his way to screw over the players, and force events that may well lead to a TPK, then I don't see a problem.

 

[Klaus]

2/3 of my players are first-time gamers. As such, they have no measure to gauge how tough their characters are, even though they're on the verge of 12th level. This has led them to be overly cautious, much like they were at 1st level.

The only way I found to rectify this was to have "mook battles" over several adventures. Mook battles include:

- Pitting 8th level PCs against 20 2nd-level orc warriors.
- Throwing 30 skeletons at the 10th-level cleric and watch the glee as the turn undead crumbles them all to dust.
- purposefully having 10 1st-level mooks run at the party as a group, and let the wizard cast her first fireball

Like in that DnD-related Vin Diesel interview, where the host says he sees a couple of figures emerging from the mist, and all he had was a rusty short sword. Vin would ask all these tactical questions to evaluate the situation, when he suddenly asked "what kind of creatures?". "Two orcs". "TWO ORCS??? I throw away my sword and fight them bare-handed!"

Seems to me that your players need some empowering.