Player Telling Other Player How To Play Their Character

[delericho]

I'm the player A in this situation. Flower Hugger linked me this as kind of a "Ha, people on the internet agree with me so you are wrong."

Oh dear. It's never good when advise on a general issue is turned into "proof" that one side in a specific argument is right. I'm sorry that this has happened.

It's worth bearing in mind that "people on the internet" also believe that the world is flat, so that by itself isn't exactly a great recommendation.

The problem with this case is that this is the third session and other players have mentioned to him. Other players including literally everyone in our playgroup. Everyone in our group puts effort and energy into playing and he does not.

Key question: does his not putting in the effort really detract from your enjoyment of the game? Or can the rest of you not just enjoy playing your way and let him enjoy playing in his?

(It's also worth considering that not everyone is equally comfortable in performing in front of a crowd. If everyone in the group is super-excited and outgoing, it can actually be difficult for a person who is more introverted and shy to open up and get involved. And the solution to that it time and encouragement, not criticism and an inquisition. Obviously, I'm not saying that this is the case here - I don't know - but it's worth bearing in mind that people are all different.)

 

[Shiroiken]

As a DM, it's acceptable to try to encourage a new or casual player to roleplay more. As a player, it's also fine to give suggestions on actions (especially in combat) and character design. Anything beyond that is not cool.

I've been on the receiving end of this, where a player demanded that I take a certain feat in a 4E game. He said it was best for the group if everyone was optimized, because he believed that 4E was designed with that in mind. I agreed that his idea was probably more OP, but it took my character in a direction that I didn't like. I refused, and a large argument ensued.

 

[Reflected_Shadows]

1. It surely isn't very nice to tell others how to play, I agree with "Would you like some assistance" and leaving it at that. Then again, I have known boneheaded players who just play terribly and I hate it when the whole party has to suffer because of that one person. I hate it when everyone has to suffer somehow, because one dolt won't stop being a bonehead.

2. I determine the reason for the bad plays. If it is a new player, I would ask them to be more open to suggestions until they learn the ropes. If it was a vet who knows better, I would demand an answer. I would also care a lot about the "helpful tone" of the "helpful player" because I hate cocky, snarky people who are "helpful" and I would tell that player to go be helpful somewhere else.

3. I don't understand this point, please reword for clarification. Do you have a boring character/boring backstory? Or did someone else, to spite you, make a boring character "to prove a point" or something? I would never allow such a character into the game world and I would not invite that player back because at my table, there is no room for people to disparage one another. I will say that if you can't think of an exciting background, think of a mundane one. We don't all have a fun-filled past, or even a grit-filled one. What matters is not where you came from, but where you are going, right?

If a player is just "Meh" and "Boring" during the game, maybe they are bored during the game. Maybe they don't want to play the game but still want to interact and socially engage with their friends so they made a character to justify hanging out or something. Maybe the grizzled veterans of the table are so into the game, using lingo and making fast choices, that the new player is a bit lost and genuinely can't think of anything to do so "uh... I attack, I guess...". Find out the reason for the player being a "bad player", ask that player "What will accommodate you and help you better enjoy the game?".

 

[Reflected_Shadows]

Flower - That is a crap move. You are attempting to find outsiders to dogpile someone for you.

Shame on you.

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

In general? I can't say.
What i think/do about it? Well, depends....

On mechanical issues i often ask for advise myself. Especially in 4E i often consulted all the party members before leveling up, in order to create more synergy with the group (duh, i was playing a tactical warlord). Even in 5E i would sometimes ask for opinions before leveling up if i can't quite decide what to take next and i am literally torn between 2 or more options. During actual play, we are such a group that we often approach encounters as a team war game and we openly discuss among us the best course of action. But that is just the way we roll (we are about 50% power gamers, 50% role/concept players).

One role playing issues though, there is usually a prime directive involved. Everyone plays their characters the way they want. And usually we didn't have any issues the last 2-3 years. An incident did happen however some time ago. Namely a lawful good caster, first wanted to set fire to a building as a distraction, which we as a group (and the DM) managed to avoid by providing a "better" (read alternative) plan that would avoid raising the alertness of the bad guys; and then after several sessions, the same player wanted to cast a fireball during a one on one duel with a thug in a tightly enclosed room, filled with civilians, allies, innocents, potential enemies and us. The fireball would have blasted 80-90% of the room and probably killed the NPC's. He insisted it was all good because it was in self defense..... We managed to persuade him not to (not just because it seamed opposed to his LG alignment, but because as a party we are generally heroic and don't favor murder of civilians), but the encounter has almost costed him his life. As a result, i fear he may hold a grudge against us. Afterwards we reached a consensus that maybe alignment change is in order and he did it. First he wanted to turn evil (presumably so he won't be restricted by any ROEs) but after an argument how troublesome an evil character can be to handle in a heroic campaign with a good party he settled for temporary neutral good. The issue seams resolved for now, but future may bring further conflict. I really wouldn't want to tell others how to play their character (especially if they don't seek advice), but sometimes...... sometimes we all fall for it. For whatever reason. I don't really condone our action of "subduing" our caster, i actually feel bad about it. But what was the alternative..... breaking up the party? We play for social reasons as much as we do for fun. Who knows, maybe he'd be happy with a different character......

 

[Charles Rampant]

I've been on the receiving end of this, where a player demanded that I take a certain feat in a 4E game. He said it was best for the group if everyone was optimized, because he believed that 4E was designed with that in mind. I agreed that his idea was probably more OP, but it took my character in a direction that I didn't like. I refused, and a large argument ensued.

Man, that sounds annoying. Was this other player trying to run the group like a team leader in a call centre, expecting you to do what they judged best?

 

[WarpedAcorn]

1. What's your thought about a player telling other player how to play their character?

We do it a lot at our current table, but not in an aggressive fashion. Usually its the player spitballing ideas with the table, with the rest providing feedback. Ultimately its the individual's decision on how they want to play their character. I think at some point we've provided suggestions as well, but the final call still lies with the player.

Personally, my character is pretending to be someone else (or more specifically not be the noble he was born as). He also has people hunting him (DM's plot device) and one of the players whose character knows who I am gets frustrated when I keep denying who I am. In her defense, it will make things easier and safer on us. In my defense, that runs against the character I'm playing, and nothing has happened [yet] that would make me want to start using my old identity. The choice is ultimately the player's.

2. As a DM, how would you resolve this issue?

I create scenarios that put quiet or "boring" players on the spot to help develop their characters. I don't shine the light too bright, but I do give them an opportunity to step up on stage and see what happens. Usually you will be surprised by your players, and if the rest of the table is impressed then they might also choose to engage that player more often in inter-party banter.

In the case of "boring" backgrounds, I simply don't include them in ongoing stories...I can't force something that isn't there. Plus its kind of a reward for people who put more thought into their background.

3. Is having a character with a boring background or playing him boring is a legitimate to tell him how to play his character?

You can provide suggestions and opportunities, but you need to stop short of just telling them what to do. Even if they ask for it, you need to resist the urge and let them make their own choices and decision. The ONLY time you should step in is if it is causing an issue at the table. If you are playing with a table of thespians who are angry at the one guy not fighting for attention...well then the quiet guy is not a fit for your table. If your thespians are having fun and the quiet guy is enjoying the show, then nothing is really broke.

 

[iserith]

1. What's your thought about a player telling other player how to play their character?2. As a DM, how would you resolve this issue?3. Is having a character with a boring background or playing him boring is a legitimate to tell him how to play his character? If you wonder if this happen to me before, yes it did. Thank you for reading this thread and I'll gladly read your input on this subject.

1. If a player is playing in such a way that it is not fun for everyone or isn't contributing to the creation of an exciting, memorable story, then I think it is reasonable to address it with said player after the game. This shouldn't include telling the player how to play his or her character unless the player in question asks for advice in my view.

2. Like any other player, the DM has a vested interest in a successful game. I would approach the player in question in a direct, non-confrontational manner and explain that whatever it is he or she is doing is not fun for everyone or isn't contributing to an exciting, memorable story and ask for his or her help in resolving the issue. The DM doesn't have any authority outside the context of the game, so it's important in my view to just talk to each other as equals and build consensus rather than issue mandates. I would consider awarding Inspiration, additional XP, or hero points if players make an effort to play in the manner everyone agrees is ideal.

If a compromise cannot be reached, then perhaps parting ways when it comes to D&D is the best solution. There are always other games you can play together.

I'm the player A in this situation. Flower Hugger linked me this as kind of a "Ha, people on the internet agree with me so you are wrong." In this game, the DM asked me to help him move the story and make stuff happen, through action or dialogue. This problem occured after the session was over for the night and everyone was preparing to leave. It's not that I was telling him how to play his character, it's that I was asking him if the choices he made were the right ones for his self description, class, and alignment. I asked the exact same of the other player in our subgroup.

The problem with this case is that this is the third session and other players have mentioned to him. Other players including literally everyone in our playgroup. Everyone in our group puts effort and energy into playing and he does not. It got to the point tonight where the DM tried to explain to Flower Hugger what all of the other players were wanting from him as a member of the group, and Flower Hugger ripped up his character sheet and threw it in the trash.

I have no problem with boring backgrounds, just boring players.

There is no "right" away to play one's description, class, or alignment. See my answers to Flower Hugger above to see how I would handle a situation where a player is not helping the group achieve the goals of play. How do you think you might have handled this situation differently to get a better outcome?

 

[evilbob]

This thread is now officially a "he said she said" which means no one is getting enough information to advise in a constructive way. But at the end of the day, if someone tore up their sheet and threw it away, some part of a situation wasn't handled correctly. Maybe "player A" was being a jerk. Maybe "player B" was being unreasonable. We can't know.

I've had a situation happen like that before and the main take away is: even if someone is frustrating you, frustrating them is not going to solve the problem. None of the advice on what is appropriate in this thread matters; what is appropriate is that two people treat each other with respect if they wish to continue to hang out.

 

[innerdude]

I have no problem with anyone choosing to play their character the way they want to play it.

That said, if a player is playing their character as a boring, faceless cypher with no purpose in the gameworld other than to fill a slot in their group, then I'm doing something wrong as a GM. I'm not encouraging them enough to engage; I'm not giving them enough spotlight time; I'm not working with them to put them into interesting situations they and/or their character care about. I would directly address the player about it privately and say, "Hey, I'd really like to have you engaged with this, what can I do?" If the player's willing to work with me and brainstorm ideas around this, awesome!

However, if he or she is not willing to engage, and is still bound and determined to treat their character as little more than a bag of hitpoints and feats, then I as the GM no longer feel obligated to treat their character as anything else either. If a situation happens to arise where that bag of hitpoints and feats are useful to the group, swell. If not, I'm not going out of my way to give the player/character anything more than a seat at the table. NPCs will not go out of their way to engage the player. I will not tailor combats or extended scene challenges to play to the character's strengths. If they end up feeling useless in a progressive series of fights, too dang bad.

Engaging with the game and proposed campaign is an unwritten, social contract rule at my table.