Remathilis
Legend
Geron Raveneye said:Not that I disagree on the general abstract nature of hit points, mind you.
I think that person has TOO MUCH free time on his hands!
Players, DMs and Save or Die
- Thread starter Remathilis
- Start date
I think that person has TOO MUCH free time on his hands!
Raven Crowking
First Post
Remathilis said:I think that person has TOO MUCH free time on his hands!
There are some things to which we all can agree........
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
You're just saying that because you envy that person.Remathilis said:I think that person has TOO MUCH free time on his hands!
Because I certainly do.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
*performs thread golden wyvernly, err necromancy*
One thing that got me thinking are the new monster "classifications/weights" (roughly Minion, Normal, Elite and "Boss") and its implications for "traditional" spells like "Save or Die". (these implications also apply for 3rd edition already, but it might give ideas why things for changed)
Save or Die effects usually only affect a single creature.
One major component of the monster classifications seems to be that the monsters all have the same level, and thus similar attack and defense values.
Which means a Goblin Minion has the same chance of ignoring a save or die effect than a boss monster (or a Boss monster is just as easy to kill with Save or Die as a Goblin Minion). This doesn't sound very good, and might make Save or Die effects actually unbalanced (if you're fighting a lot o Minions, they suck, if you fight a boss monster, they're overpowered)
Which also ties to another thing:
Spells per Day:
A caster has only so many spells per day. If he has to fight a lot of foes with spells affecting only a single one of the, he runs out of juice quickly (in top of being less effective in encounters with many opponents). If he fights a single (but more powerful foe), he is more effective.
Hence, Vancian Magic can be a problem creating a balanced adventure. (If you want an adventure fighting Goblin Hordes, it will suck to be Wizard. An adventure hunting a band of Ogres is sweet...)
Apart from that, you also have the timing problem - do the encounters take place in a single day, or over an arbitrary amount of time?
Spells typically employed by Wizard School:
Enchanctment and Necromancy spells usually target individual foes (and severely weaken them). Conjurations are probably a middle ground, but usually, a conjured creature or effect can also affect only one target. Evocations are often mass effects.
So, a Necromancer would prefer "boss fights", an Evoker "Minion Fights". This isn't entirely bad, because it's okay if a character has his strengths and weaknesses. But this might (just might) be too much in this case.
Again, it constricts the type of adventures (similar problem as with Vancian Magic above). You have to ensure you balance the encounter setup - encounters against a lot of foes mixed with "boss" encounters, regardless how appropriate it is for the theme of the adventure.
So, for D&D 4, they decided to create more flexbility by removing a lot of constraints. (This obviously has some dangers, ranging from alienating fans of the old constraints to changing so much that new limitations or other fauls don't become apparent until it's too late)
One thing that got me thinking are the new monster "classifications/weights" (roughly Minion, Normal, Elite and "Boss") and its implications for "traditional" spells like "Save or Die". (these implications also apply for 3rd edition already, but it might give ideas why things for changed)
Save or Die effects usually only affect a single creature.
One major component of the monster classifications seems to be that the monsters all have the same level, and thus similar attack and defense values.
Which means a Goblin Minion has the same chance of ignoring a save or die effect than a boss monster (or a Boss monster is just as easy to kill with Save or Die as a Goblin Minion). This doesn't sound very good, and might make Save or Die effects actually unbalanced (if you're fighting a lot o Minions, they suck, if you fight a boss monster, they're overpowered)
Which also ties to another thing:
Spells per Day:
A caster has only so many spells per day. If he has to fight a lot of foes with spells affecting only a single one of the, he runs out of juice quickly (in top of being less effective in encounters with many opponents). If he fights a single (but more powerful foe), he is more effective.
Hence, Vancian Magic can be a problem creating a balanced adventure. (If you want an adventure fighting Goblin Hordes, it will suck to be Wizard. An adventure hunting a band of Ogres is sweet...)
Apart from that, you also have the timing problem - do the encounters take place in a single day, or over an arbitrary amount of time?
Spells typically employed by Wizard School:
Enchanctment and Necromancy spells usually target individual foes (and severely weaken them). Conjurations are probably a middle ground, but usually, a conjured creature or effect can also affect only one target. Evocations are often mass effects.
So, a Necromancer would prefer "boss fights", an Evoker "Minion Fights". This isn't entirely bad, because it's okay if a character has his strengths and weaknesses. But this might (just might) be too much in this case.
Again, it constricts the type of adventures (similar problem as with Vancian Magic above). You have to ensure you balance the encounter setup - encounters against a lot of foes mixed with "boss" encounters, regardless how appropriate it is for the theme of the adventure.
So, for D&D 4, they decided to create more flexbility by removing a lot of constraints. (This obviously has some dangers, ranging from alienating fans of the old constraints to changing so much that new limitations or other fauls don't become apparent until it's too late)
