Players stuck is 2ed

[Calico_Jack73]

Amen to that. I don't think I've ever played a 3e D&D game that has topped some of my older edition games for "feeling" and "atmosphere"

Actually, I'm not really sure why that is. Strange. Though I do have to agree that the classes don't feel as defined as they used to be.

I wonder... think about the old monster manuals. Each creature only had a paragraph or two dedicated to background, even on Demons and Devils. The DM really could do whatever he wanted with any of the creatures because there was no printed material that contradicted him. I think not knowing had something to do with it. Your imagination of Orcus and Asmodeus gave them a whole different feel than their modern incarnations that have whole sections of material written up on them.

Perhaps the whole "Less is More" adage is true for D&D? If that IS true then we as players have ruined it for ourselves by reading up on everything that used to be open to interpretation. Through that reading the mystery has been removed.

 

[diaglo]

Treat his complaints like a running gag. Even if he never stops complaining at least you have someone to poke fun of.

are you sure you aren't playing in my group?

 

[Darklone]

We had such a guy as well... we agreed to let him run a 2nd Ed AD&D campaign as DM and we will run a 3rd edition game with him as player.

We actually won him over as he noticed that his houserules (such as attribute bonuses) were corerules in 3rd edition. Twas easy.

And I never saw anyone playing AD&D without houserules.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

There seems to be an awful lot of hate being thrown around in here for a game that most of us used to play just a few years back.

True, I played it back a few years back - even after 3e came out (I couldn't find anyone who played 3e, the DM I choose then played 2e because he thought 3e was bull...). I (mildly) hated it even back then when I still playd it, but since I wanted to get into Roleplaying and found no 3e party (and there were a couple of decent people in those parties), I did play. The worst thing was that I already knew 3e-rules and knew that you could do things a lot better than how we did them.
I must say that my view may be colored by the DMs' attitude. They were of the "old school", who greatly restricted access to magic stuff (including the spells you got). If they didn't want you to get a spell, you didn't get it, didn't find it. It wasn't out of the game (so enemies could very well have it), but you couldn't get it.
I didn't really mourn when the campaigns were discontinued due to players just no showing up and never telling anyone (that was a big problem back then, and some people we have/had in our current parties still do it). I had more than one 3e campaign where I playd in by then.

 

[JesterPoet]

True, I played it back a few years back - even after 3e came out (I couldn't find anyone who played 3e, the DM I choose then played 2e because he thought 3e was bull...). I (mildly) hated it even back then when I still playd it, but since I wanted to get into Roleplaying and found no 3e party (and there were a couple of decent people in those parties), I did play. The worst thing was that I already knew 3e-rules and knew that you could do things a lot better than how we did them.
I must say that my view may be colored by the DMs' attitude. They were of the "old school", who greatly restricted access to magic stuff (including the spells you got). If they didn't want you to get a spell, you didn't get it, didn't find it. It wasn't out of the game (so enemies could very well have it), but you couldn't get it.
I didn't really mourn when the campaigns were discontinued due to players just no showing up and never telling anyone (that was a big problem back then, and some people we have/had in our current parties still do it). I had more than one 3e campaign where I playd in by then.

Geez... you didn't happen to play at a comic store in Illinois, did you?

Yikes... bad flashbacks.

 

[CleverName]

I have a dilema that some of you may have faced.

I have an old school player who is constantly comparing the latest editions of dnd to 2nd edition skills and powers. Unfortunately I am the kind of person who wants to please everyone but he will not break out of the old mentality. It is starting to become annoying and bringing the whole game down.

I dont want to toss him out but I need to do something to show him that 3,3.5 edition can be so much more.

Has anyone else encountered this problem and got some way I can improve the situation.

Thanks

You are going to have to talk with him.

Maybe try putting it like this. (I'm pulling the name "Greg" out of the hat here.)

"Greg there are some problems with the game and I need your imput to fix them. My enjoyment of the game has been declining and I can see that you are not satisfied. We only play these games to have fun -- it's just too much work to not have a good time at the table.

My problem is that I'm too distracted by talk about rules at the table - especially your comparisions to older rule systems that we're not going to use for this campaign. We need to come to some understanding about the rules and move on so I can concentrate on the story and the characters.

It's obvious that you have a problem with rules we will be using for the campaign. Maybe we can agree to play a different campaign at some later date, or maybe we can come up with 1 or 2 house rules that might help everyone's enjoyment of the game.

Here are my suggestions,...

[Blah, blah, blah...}

If he does not respond to that, or if he continues. Then basically you have to put it on the line. "You are not having a good time, I'm not having a good time, so our continuing to game together just makes no sense. Sorry.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Geez... you didn't happen to play at a comic store in Illinois, did you?

Yikes... bad flashbacks.

No. But maybe the others thought we did. No wonder they never showed up: they were always on an overseas trip to the US to play with us - when they had less than 15 km to the real place. It's all so clear now.

No, that ain't right: They apparently got the place wrong, but they didn't think about Illinois, they thought about a sunny lakeside in our vicinity (unless it rained, then they got it right first go).

 

[MarauderX]

i still build my characters based on OD&D memories.

I'm part of that club. I used to gripe about 2E cause I hated it, so I found my own group and played on. I quit all associations with 2E and pretended it didn't exist as all I would ever hear from players was 'my PC has blah blah blah with blah blah and is cooler than anything ever concieved'. Retch. So I simply found my niche, which was OD&D until 3.0 came out.

You could take him back to the days of OD&D, which is again a far cry from 2E; translate everything back from 2E for his prized PC. Then kill him. Often. Tell him to get used to it. After 3 hours of OD&D death-therapy, bring him back to 3E. Tell him that you never want to hear about some wimpy 2E version again. Welcome back to D&D with 3.XE - survival is your mission, not collecting toys. Feel lucky punk? Think again... roll for initiative... [/D&D bootcamp]

I'm glad 3E came out, thought it took some time to warm to, and won't go back. Perhaps your player is looking for something else that he may never find or be happy with in your campaign.

 

[mmadsen]

Perhaps the whole "Less is More" adage is true for D&D? If that IS true then we as players have ruined it for ourselves by reading up on everything that used to be open to interpretation. Through that reading the mystery has been removed.

Excellent point.

 

[Saeviomagy]

do you want him to do this to your 2000ed game? it is pretty easy in this edition too.

Typically if you make a game-breakingly min-maxed build in 3rd ed, it'll take you quite a bit of effort.

Slapping together something horrendous in a point-build system such as skills and powers is significantly easier. This isn't just the case with skills and powers, it's a systemic problem with point-based character generation.

Perhaps building a too-powerful character is a bit silly though - maybe he won't get the point.

Maybe you should just build a character that's centred around all the confusing and conflicting rules in 2nd ed.

Or better still, make one which would be insane under 2nd ed, but works a lot better under 3rd.

Example - a flying thief. A swoop (or whatever they call in in 2nd) attack does double damage, and a sneak attack does up to quintuple damage. Under 2nd ed rules, you're not left with a lot of options beyond "just multiply it all out", ending up with x10 damage. Under 3rd ed rules, you end up with x6 damage, not that much more than the initial backstab.

Try to save people from death using the healing proficiency. Since you need to get to them within one round, you'll have a really really hard time. Point out 3rd ed's "bleeding to death" rules.

Use save-and-take-20-damage-or-don't-and-die poisons. Attempt to craft things. Try to get in contests where the DM needs the actual statistics of monsters (ie - str, con, wis etc). Let off fireballs indoors and say "oops" when you wipe out the entire dungeon. Better still, let off a fireball right on the entrance of a dungeon and try to work out how big the blast is. Get skill checks above 20, then try things which should be near-impossible with them. Craft items as a high level cleric (for free!).

Point out how much better the 3rd ed rules are in all of these respects.