Players Whining that they Should be able to Buy Magic Items

[FireLance]

Why would you want to DM for players who want the rulebook to take precedence over the campaign, or who make selfish powergaming demands?

I don't think anyone would want to DM for such players, but I do think the question ignores the continuum of players and DMs that are out there.

As the DM, I have the final say about what is allowed in my campaign. There are certain game elements that I don't allow, e.g. the Frenzied Berserker. However, I do allow most things that the players want, and will adapt my campaign to fit it in.

I wouldn't want to DM for selfish players, but I have no problem with powergamers. Practically everyone in my regular campaign is a powergamer, myself included, and we get a kick out of seeing well-tuned characters in action. Believe it or not, it's our idea of fun.

I allow my players to have full creative control over their characters, including the equipment they want. Some DMs will probably shudder at the way I handle equipment. Whenever a character gains a level, I just tell the player to delete his old equipment and select whatever new equipment he wants, up to the standard character wealth for his level.

Magic shops don't even come into the picture. My standard handwave is that the character's organization provides him with appropriate equipment. To me, it doesn't matter where or how he gets his gear - gifts, rewards, trade, purchase, whatever. It simply isn't relevant to having a fun game.

I see my job as simply to present challenges to the characters, and believe me, it doesn't matter what races or classes or skills or feats or gear the characters have - I can still challenge them. Not having to worry about placing treasure in the adventure is quite liberating, too.

My DMing philosophy is probably quite different from many of the DMs who don't like magic shops, or the idea of PCs buying and selling magic items, or who want to control the gear that the PCs have access to. But, I don't think it's a wrong one.

 

[Ace]

Why would you want to DM for players who want the rulebook to take precedence over the campaign, or who make selfish powergaming demands?

Or the correlary -- why should I want to play with a DM who ignore the basic rules and implied structures of the game?

D&D3x has a set of rules that it lives by -- set amount of magic and treasure that balance encounters out -- DM's who want to ignore this for flavor reasons without being upfront about it should get used to savvy players like me telling them to follow the fricken rules

If you told me up front about these facts thats another matter -- I just will flat out refuse to play your setting with the D&D rules-- yes this includes good low magic like Midnight and will cordially suggest you might prefer a different set of rules that supports what you are doing

D&D is more than a toybox of fun stuff it is also a structure of advancement -- and escaltion in treasure and the like that is meant to provide a certain play experience that a lot of us come to expect from D&D

Deviate from that and a lot of us just won't play and

yes that means I expect my 49,000 (= or - 10%) GP worth of kit at 10th level in a world that makes sense (within itself) --

If you plan to change this and not compasate me with more cool stuff (level based bonus to AC, covennat items whatever) than I will pass on your homebrew thank you very much

The game is more important than "story" or "world building" -- it took me a long timne ot figure that out but I did and my game is better for it (and I have more fun too )

 

[Ace]

I don't think anyone would want to DM for such players, but I do think the question ignores the continuum of players and DMs that are out there.

As the DM, I have the final say about what is allowed in my campaign. There are certain game elements that I don't allow, e.g. the Frenzied Berserker. However, I do allow most things that the players want, and will adapt my campaign to fit it in.
SNIPS LOTS OF COOL STUFF .

I am the same way pretty much.

you sir have a right proper DMing philosophy and I hope if I am ever in Singapore I can grab a spot at your table

 

[Dinkeldog]

My opinion is that the DM is welcome to run any campaign that they desire. However, the DM that does not look to the desires of his players, is a DM that has no players. Before just complaining that your players are whining, it might be advisable to consider that your players are looking for a different feel to the game than you seem to recognize.

 

[Vigilance]

Yes. Elves and magic are conventions of the genre. We assume reality differs from ours in that it has races of intelligent beings other than our own, and a form of physics that allows for manipulation of energy in ways other than those we understand.

Humans being fundamentally different in their nature than they are in our reality is not a convention of the genre. Humans failing to commodify valuable items (as they have always done with all items of value in history) is just beyond reasonable.

And generally speaking, buying and selling magic items are NOT conventions of the genre.

Let's see... Conan and the Phoenix Sword? found in a tomb

Bilbo and the ring? found in a cave

Aragorn and the sword? forged for him to become king of men by elves for his fight with evil

Frodo and the ring? Inherited to continue the quest

Thoth Amon and the Ring of Set? sold his soul to a demon for it (IIRC)

Not a shop in sight.

Chuck

 

[Orius]

I think the 3e concept of mix'n'match magic items (eg +3 keen, lightening, pixiebane mercurial greatsword) cheapens the whole magic item expirience.

Like someone else said, make the item unique. Give it a name, and a history, give it a reason to have all those unusual powers (although the weapon you mentioned does kind of stretch it a little).

Here's some examples that I rolled up randomly. The items themselves were just random vanilla items, but I was still able to come up with a name and a very bare bones history for each of them:

+1 frost ghost touch bastard sword. This would make a great weapon weapon for a ghost or some other sort of incorporeal undead. Maybe it was created by a lich for an undead minion to wield. I call it the Chillblade.

+1 monstrous humanoid bane scimitar. This sword is called Medusacleaver. It was forged long ago in a desert kingdom that was at was with a kingodm ruled by medsuas.

+3 gnome bane small-sized quarterstaff. A small sized gnome bane weapon was likely created by a kobold sorcerer. This weapon is known as the rod of Kurtulmak, and is used by kobold clerics to slay gnomes.

Ok, so there's not really much to them, just some bare bones concepts that I can further flesh out when needed. These were just items that kind of grabbed my attention when I rolled them up.

So does the mechanical nature of magic item generation eg potions must be spells less than 3rd level with a target of blah, blah, blah. It makes magic items generic and, thus, interchangable chattles. I understand the game balance issues, and i understand item creation is now an important game concept.

It does help to make the magic item creation process more streamlined and easy to use. Besides, old style potions that don't really correspond to a spell of 3rd level or less can be simply created as wondrous items.

 

[Piratecat]

Thanks for steering this away from the argument and back on-topic, folks. It's appreciated.

 

[Vigilance]

For those who think that a lack of buying/selling items is "unreasonable"

I keep seeing this argument.

In effect people are saying that those of us who feel magic items shouldnt be bought/sold are stupid.

Furthermore they are saying a GM shouldnt have the right to make this call in some cases.

Well apart from my feeling that the cook decides the ingredients, and those who come to the meal can eat or not, let's look at a couple of historical examples and address the "reasonableness" issue.

Samurai Swords

The makers of these weapons were quickly snatched up the ruling military elite. In many cases individual lords seeking an advantage over their foes. These lords would give these weapons to their followers, in order to gain an edge in the civil wars of the era.

Relics in Medieval Europe

These items were quickly snatched up by the ruling religious and cultural elite. In many cases these items were used to consecrate important events and places, but were occasionally given to those undertaking a quest (relics accompanied Crusaders if I am not mistaken).

Sometimes they were sold... but still only to the faithful.

In both cases... there were numerous conmen... and the buyer of such an item (when they could find the item in question) had to be VERY wary.

I think the Samurai Sword example is the better for my argument... since magic items (like the best swords in the world) could destabilize a government's hold on power.

Does anyone thing the sale of powerful items would not be regulated? Even +1 swords would be watched by the wise ruler. If someone were to acquire a few hundred of them (over a long period of time) they could mount an effective military force. Sieze control of a critical road and start "taxing" trade if not spark an outright rebellion.

Chuck

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

He says that he doesn't let his players buy magic items. He doesn't say, no one in the game world can ever exchange anything magical under any circumstances.

Well, I guess that's different then, in that everyone other than the PCs can buy and sell magic items, just not them.

Frankly, that's an even more idiotic interpretation than "No one ever sells magic to anyone, at all."

 

[Orius]

Wow. My players' characters would be arrested, mutilated, publicly demoralized, fined, and imprisoned for committing murder and theft; not to mention any equipment used in the murder would be impounded by the state. They'd probably also be banned by whoever ran the library or sage's guild.

No public executions? If they're killing NPCs in the city for their magic stuff, I'd expect to see them hung or brought before the headsman.