Playing a Bard for the first time - need suggestions

[Ace]

Unless you really want to go into melee combat (remeber, d6 HD, medium BAB, no Sneak Attack, no Cleric bonus spells on every combat thing)
Str 11
Dex15
Con12
Int15
Wis10
Cha17



Spells:
Consider at least one of the Cure Spells. If you decide to take a higher level one, this might be very useful in later combats (Cure Lights do not help much in high level combats, but the wands are cheap)

Multiclassing:
If you`re still looking for a concept: How about Skald = Bard+Barbarian!


Mustrum Ridcully

These are all excellent ideas

I would add the following

at mid level you can learn "Summon Monster" that is incredibly usefull for you. Let them do your fighting for you. You also have Buff spells that can come in handy

And second, if you are multiclassing, I agree with Musrtum (you don't mind if I call you Mustrum I hope) Either Barbarian or Ranger are the ways to go,

Ranger lets you support as a tracker (and gives you weapon feats. It is especially nice if your GM lets you take Missile Feats instead. Spend a feat on Cosmoplitan (from FRCS) and take wilderness lore as a skill. Lean Mean Tracking Machine

Barabrian rules too, You won't need more than 2 levels max (for the uncanny dodge) The movement Bonus is especially nice

If you can get away with it (and there are plenty of spell casters in the party) you can go barb1 rangr1 Bard -- the rest of the way

You would be a fast killing machine Bard

Stat order I think would be about the best

Str 11
Dex17
Con12
Int15
Wis10
Cha15

For your level ups add 1 to Str (at 4) 1 to Int (at 8) 1 to Dex (at 12) 1 to Charisma (at 16) I am not sure about the lastone

 

[haiiro]

Just a couple of suggestions from a spellcasting standpoint: if you haven't already, check out Magic of Faerun and the Book of Eldritch Might II -- both feature some great bard spells (among other things). Particularly if you're looking to fill a damage-oriented swing role in the party, things like silent sound (1d6/level sonic attack, maxes at 5d6, 1st level spell) can come in very handy.

 

[kengar]

There's some good general info on a new bard character here.

 

[The Sigil]

Shameless Plug

Just a couple of suggestions from a spellcasting standpoint: if you haven't already, check out Magic of Faerun and the Book of Eldritch Might II -- both feature some great bard spells (among other things). Particularly if you're looking to fill a damage-oriented swing role in the party, things like silent sound (1d6/level sonic attack, maxes at 5d6, 1st level spell) can come in very handy.

You might also check out my book, The Enchiridion of Mystic Music. 76 pages devoted completely to bards. It expands your music abiliy considerably, but also has little things for almost every aspect of your bard (including more spells, though the majority of these are collated from several other OGC sources - but it saves you the time and money of collecting them). You can grab it from RPGNow.com by clicking on this link. Product info is at my website here. It's currently priced at $5.50, and is, IMO, the single best buy for bards out there. It's certainly the cheapest "bard sourcebook" I know of (well, the Bard's Companion over at DM's Haven is free and 9 pages, so I guess it's cheaper) and AFAIK is the longest, too... making the price:content ratio exceptional.

--The Sigil

 

[mmu1]

I'd suggest turning away from the "auxiliary tank" concept unless it's the kind of character you want to play - definitely don't do it just because "It's what the party needs". It's not what playing a Bard should be about, and you're going to be bad at it anyway. You don't have the access to a lot of weapons, you can't wear heavy armor, and you're going to be much too low on hit points unless you sacrifice one of your highest scores for a high Constitution.

I'd reccommend:

STR 10
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 11
CHA 17

To make him as good at being a typical Bard as possible,

or

STR 10
DEX 17
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 11
CHA 15

For a more combat-oriented one, but there already is an archer in your party...

You could probably pull off the "charismatic tank" idea if you played a Rogue instead of a Bard... They're much more effective in combat.

 

[niteshade6]

It's very hard to play a melee combat oriented bard because of poor ac and poor hit points. You can sometimes do it with the right spells, use magic device, and shield scrolls but it is difficult. If you go this route you need a good strength more then anything. You can't be a melee bard with a 10 strength, even if you do use weapon finese. You just won't do enough damage to make the slightest difference. If you want to go this route take the highest strength you can, as well as a high con. Maybe even consider martial weapon prof greatsword or something similar.

Archer bard is much easier to pull off, but almost every suggestion I've seen here for an archer bard build is very poor. You absolutely do NOT want a 10 strength. Archers with 10 strength are pathetic. Strength is much more important then dex for archers, becasue your hit bonus goes up almost every level anyway, but almost nothing else increases your bow damage. An archer with 18 strength and 10 dex will probably do almost double the damage per round that one with a 10 strength and 18 dex would.

One final way to go is an enchantment bard. This can also combine with a melee bard to some extent, but it is harder to combine with an archer bard because of the feat requirements. It also takes longer to get going. This is basicaly where you take spell focus and greater spell focus enchantment, and use spells like hold person, confusion, suggestion, charm, hold monster, dominate person, etc. Bards get many enchantment spells very early, sometimes even earlier then sorcerors. For example they confusion as a lvl 3 spell instead of lvl 4 for everyone else. So they can be pretty nasty when they alternate between melee fighting and chucking nasty enchantment spells.

The key thing when playing a bard is thinking about what will set him apart from the other classes. Try to use as many of his strengths as you can, or else you will end up playing an inferior sorceror, an inferior rogue, or an inferior cleric. Take advantages of his many strengths and you can at least be an inferior sorceror/rogue/cleric.

 

[mmu1]

Archer bard is much easier to pull off, but almost every suggestion I've seen here for an archer bard build is very poor. You absolutely do NOT want a 10 strength. Archers with 10 strength are pathetic. Strength is much more important then dex for archers, becasue your hit bonus goes up almost every level anyway, but almost nothing else increases your bow damage. An archer with 18 strength and 10 dex will probably do almost double the damage per round that one with a 10 strength and 18 dex would.

They'd be poor suggestions if they were for someone playing an archer Fighter or Ranger... But in this case, he needs to worry about doing other things besides just dealing damage. There's no point in playing a Bard if you're going to neglect spellcasting and skills for the sake of combat effectiveness.

As for the whole Str/Dex issue... Sorry, but suggesting that a bard with 18 Str and 10 Dex would be better off than one with 10 Str and 18 Dex is just silly. With his low BAB, it'd completely cripple his ability to actually hit something... A good Dex, masterwork bows and arrows, Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus let archers get their to hit bonus up so high they practically never miss, which means they end up doing just fine in the damage department... And the Dex also comes in handy in a number of other areas - AC (very important for a class that wears light or no armor), Reflex Saves and several skills - whereas Str does absolutely nothing for a Bard aside from increasing damage.

 

[Nifft]

I choose a human for the benifit of added skill points and a bonus feat. I was also leaning towards a fighting bard as the party lacks a real tank. We have an elven archer fighter and a human fighter with a 10 strength (don't ask).

Well - all suggestions welcome and appreciated.

Suggestion: don't play a bard

Start at 1st level as a Rogue. See how you like being a melee rogue. It's more fun than being a melee Bard, and you still get all those nifty skillpoints.

Second level: either continue being a Rogue, or take a level of Bard, or take a level of Barbarian.

Barbarian/Rogue is an awesome combo. You get to have a lot of fun in combat vs. things which can be sneak-attacked, and you can rage against things which can't be sneak-attacked.

Here's how I'd lay out your stats:

STR 11
DEX 17
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 15

Feats: Exotic Weapon (Spiked Chain), Weapon Finesse (Spiked Chain), then later: Expertise, Improved Trip

- OR -

Feats: Expertise, Improved Disarm, Weapon Finesse (Rapier)

-- Nifft

 

[Merlion]

Are you in fact wanting to go combat-bard as everyone seems to think, or do you want a more social/musical/font of knowledge role?

 

[niteshade6]

"They'd be poor suggestions if they were for someone playing an archer Fighter or Ranger... But in this case, he needs to worry about doing other things besides just dealing damage. There's no point in playing a Bard if you're going to neglect spellcasting and skills for the sake of combat effectiveness."

Giving yourself a good strength does not mean you are neglecting spell casting and skilils. It just means that you are not negelcting combat. There is absolutely no point in playing a bard if you neglect combat. You can still have perfectly good spellcasting and skill abilities. Having a 10 stregnth prevents you from being at all effective in combat (without major magic bonuses or weapons with elemental damage).

"As for the whole Str/Dex issue... Sorry, but suggesting that a bard with 18 Str and 10 Dex would be better off than one with 10 Str and 18 Dex is just silly. With his low BAB, it'd completely cripple his ability to actually hit something... A good Dex, masterwork bows and arrows, Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus let archers get their to hit bonus up so high they practically never miss, "

Well it might help here if you actualy do the math. Take two different bards. They are both level 3, with point blank, rapid shot, and masterwork mighty bows. They are both shooting at an enemy with an ac of 15 from more then 30' away. One has a 18 strength and a 10 dex, and the other has a reverse. I was exagerating to say the 18 str bard will do almost double, but you will find his damage output is significantly better. If you actualy do the math you might surprise yourself. Underestimating the importance of strength is one of the worst mistakes you ever see in archers, or new players. Of course it's even better to assign a good score to strength and dex. For example if this character was going to be an archer, he should probably have a 17 strength, 14 dex, and 15 cha. Although if you expected to get regular bull strengths from a cleric you could make an argument for putting the 14 into strength instead, since it does not help to have a strength higher then 18 with a bow .