Playing Oldschool - White Plume Mountain with 1e

[MerricB]

I'm 33 today. As a treat for myself (and possibly my friends), I took them through part of the original 1E White Plume Mountain today, instead of the RPGA (3.5E) game we often play on Friday afternoons.

Beware! This thread contains spoilers for White Plume Mountain! Read on at your own risk!

I wasn't sure how many people were going to turn up - there was the possibilty of eight people - so, I created 8 Pre-gens. I used a mixture of 1e and 3e terminology: AC and attack bonuses were given in 3E format; all else in 1e format. PCs were created using the appendix in the 1E DMG "Creating a party on the spur of the moment" to assign magic items.

Here's a few of the PCs:

Halfling F6/T6; S12, I9, W7, D17, C13, Ch13; AC 18; hp 28
+1 shortsword: +6 (1d6+1)
Shortbow: #AT 2; +7 (1d6)

Half-Elf C5/MU6; S11, I12, W17, D11, C9, Ch11; AC 22; hp 24
Mace: +2 (1d6+1)

Human C7; S12, I9, W16, D8, C11, Ch12; AC 18; hp 33
+1 Mace: +5 (1d6+2)

Human R6; S18/06; I13, W15, D9, C16, Ch15; AC 18, hp 49
+1 longsword: +7 (1d8+4)
+1 longbow: #AT 2; +6 (1d6+1)

The other PCs: A Dwarf F7; Elf F6/MU6; Human F7; Human MU7 (The players took those with them).

Little else was on the character sheets. This was AD&D with no supplements: just the three core books. I flirted with using the 3.5e spells, but soon enough we were using 1e descriptions for all. The unfamiliarity of the players with the older spells would soon cause trouble!

Five players turned up, they took five of the PCs. (F/T, F/MU, MU, R, C/MU). We were away!

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

You may be asking why I used (a) White Plume Mountain and (b) why AD&D when I like 3e so much?

As for (a), I think White Plume Mountain is a great *fun* adventure. It has a variety of situations, requires the players to think, and isn't too serious. It's always been one of my favourite adventures. No, it doesn't always make sense - but it's enjoyable to run and to play.

And why (b) AD&D? Partly it's to reacquaint myself with the game. When you write articles about 3.5e, it's important to remember the game's roots, and to see where things have changed - where things have improved, and where they have not. Then too, there's a different balance perspective to the game. I'm not talking about PC vs PC here (a key component of 3.5e balance), but rather of 3rd level opponents vs 7th level opponents.

Look at the attack bonuses above for the pregens. A 6th level character has a +7 attack bonus with a good strength and a magic sword! The F7 (no listed) also only had a +7 attack bonus. (A F1 would be +0 without modification, btw).

There's a stretching of AC and attack bonuses in 3e that is not always to the benefit of the game. I found that when running Encounter at Blackwall Keep (Age of Worms #3) last week - the lizardfolk just *couldn't* hit the PCs. 30 lizardfolk vs 6 fifth-level PCs was so lop-sided it wasn't funny... but that would have been challenging in AD&D.

I sometime think the stacking of bonuses in 3e has gone too far - and the chief culprit is the ability score progression...

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Into the Dungeon (spoilers ahoy!)

After the obligatory adventure background explanation, the PCs entered the dungeon. Cutting out the boring bits, they soon found themselves trudging through muck, mud and water. (What fun!)

Trick #1: The Sphinx
I love running Sphinxes. I find them so amusing (as do my players). In my games, the Sphinxes know it's daft to keep asking (easily answered?) riddles, but they do it anyway... because it's traditional. Or, as in this case, because some crackpot wizard has geased them to do it. "I'm so bored here. You know the drill. Riddle, answer, yada yada yada... I'll let you through if you get it, otherwise the adventure ends here."

I'm rather pleased that Adam got the riddle within seconds. Of course, it's not a hard riddle - it remains one of my favourites, though. The "Altar of the Lupine Lords" line is great... and the entire thing is evocative. Give me that over hard any day.

Three passages. Which way to go? By now, the players have a great strategy - Adam gets there first and says "Left!" So, off to Blackrazor they squelch.

Trick #2: Heating Elements
What do you do when you find that your metal armour heats up in a corridor? Do you
(a) run through screaming and hope you have enough hit points?
(b) try to find a way to cool it down? or
(c) send the magic-user up ahead on his own to see if there's an "off" switch.

If you're my party, you choose (c).

This is a bit of a problem when there are 8 ghouls waiting up the end for unarmoured people to arrive! I'm a kind DM. Only two ghouls attack. The rest of the party are bemused to see the Wizard running and screaming his way back to them (splash! splash!), followed by two ghouls.

Mat, playing the ranger, rushed into to melee with the ghouls. His armour begins to heat up, but he can take it - for now. Unfortunately, this is the point where he failed his save against paralysis. Oh dear. "Help!" "Shut up you, you can't talk!" *through clenched teeth: Help!*

1E initiative irritates me, but I'm using it now. For those who have forgotten, it works like this:

1) Players declare actions.
2) Both sides roll d6, highest roll wins
3) Sides act in initiative order, unless one side has more attack routines than the other, was charging, firing bows, casting spells, or got simultaneous initiative, in which case other rules apply...

Let's just say that the ghouls died under a hail of magic missiles. One poor ghoul, with only 10 hp, was hit by three magic missile spells in the same round from the three MUs - 10 missiles in all. It was very dead.

Having had this plan not go that well, do you think that dissuaded the PCs? Not at all. Ben the MU went once again, on his own, to the end chamber. That's when I had the other 6 ghouls come out.

The other PCs decide to act. The halfling and ranger charge down towards the MU, despite their armour and the heating elements. Adam (playing the C/MU), decides to cast fireball. Ben hears this, and begins charging back down towards the party, trying desperately to get out of the area of effect.

I point out that 1e fireballs expand to fill the area. Adam doesn't care.

I'm a nice DM. I rule that if the PCs make their saves, they only take 1/4 damage, because there's water for them to shield themselves with. Some PCs make saves. Others don't. Surprisingly, no-one dies in the group - the ghouls are toasted, however.

Eventually, the PCs work out a plan to get their armour through and put it into effect. They're through the room. Where does the next door lead?

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Trick #3: Super-Tetanus!
The next room has two pits with rusty razor blades and a frictionless floor. Sarah, suspecting a trick but not this one, quickly jumps over the first pit to find herself sliding into the second. A failed poison saving throw later, and her character is well on the way to death from Super Tetanus!

Mat comes up with a novel idea: get a body of a ghoul from the last chamber, and use it as a "surfboard", jumping off it at the last moment to get across the second pit to safety. It sounds stupid to me, but also fun. Why not?

So, Mat jumps on, slides across the floor, and then it's time to roll dice to see if he jumps off in time. That'll be a Dex check (d20 equal or less than his Dex... of 9). He rolls a 10. He falls into Sarah's pit.

Hmm. Minor damage. Make your save vs poison, Mat - you need an 11. He rolls a 10. There's a theme here somewhere. Two characters expiring from Super Tetanus!

It doesn't take long for the rest of the party to get spooked and fail to rescue their friends - not that they could do anything, anyway.

It's getting late. I can't remember how they got across. I'm sure that Gerard got himself across somehow (maybe he made his save, and then used a rope?) In any case, having exhausted the comic potential of this area, we moved on. Mat and Sarah took new characters, who mysteriously just happened to arrive(!) and the PCs were faced with a new challenging decision:

Left or Right?

Cheers!

 

[johnsemlak]

Look at the attack bonuses above for the pregens. A 6th level character has a +7 attack bonus with a good strength and a magic sword! The F7 (no listed) also only had a +7 attack bonus. (A F1 would be +0 without modification, btw).
Cheers!

My memory is hazy but didn't AD&D have an optional fighter attack progression that basically went +1 to hit per level ((i.e. a level 7 fighter would have beem +7 to hit, more or less what we have now), as opposed to +2 every two levels?

There's a stretching of AC and attack bonuses in 3e that is not always to the benefit of the game. I found that when running Encounter at Blackwall Keep (Age of Worms #3) last week - the lizardfolk just *couldn't* hit the PCs. 30 lizardfolk vs 6 fifth-level PCs was so lop-sided it wasn't funny... but that would have been challenging in AD&D.

I sometime think the stacking of bonuses in 3e has gone too far - and the chief culprit is the ability score progression...

That's a good point about stacking but remember that 3.xe has more limits to stacking than AD&D. I remember combining multiple rings of protection along with amulets, magic armor and other stuff to get extremely low ACs

 

[MerricB]

My memory is hazy but didn't AD&D have an optional fighter attack progression that basically went +1 to hit per level ((i.e. a level 7 fighter would have beem +7 to hit, more or less what we have now), as opposed to +2 every two levels?

Sort of. It was one less.

A 1st level fighter needed a 20 to hit AC 0... which is AC 20 in the new system... thus a +0 attack bonus. So, a 7th level fighter is at +6 to hit. The progression is the same.

That's a good point about stacking but remember that 3.xe has more limits to stacking than AD&D. I remember combining multiple rings of protection along with amulets, magic armor and other stuff to get extremely low ACs

Indeed you could... although in basic AD&D, there weren't really that many magic items giving AC bonuses. Well, there shouldn't have been...

Certainly the monster ACs were much more compressed.

Cheers!

 

[diaglo]

Here's a few of the PCs:

Halfling F6/T6; S12, I9, W7, D17, C13, Ch13; AC 18

so you didn't use weapon vs armor type i see.

 

[diaglo]

I sometime think the stacking of bonuses in 3e has gone too far - and the chief culprit is the ability score progression...

i say the same thing about Supplement I Greyhawk.

 

[diaglo]

That's a good point about stacking but remember that 3.xe has more limits to stacking than AD&D. I remember combining multiple rings of protection along with amulets, magic armor and other stuff to get extremely low ACs

1edADnD had them too. there were limits. just that many DMs ignored them or didn't bother to look for the rules.
edit: part of this stems from weapon vs armor type too.

 

[johnsemlak]

1edADnD had them too. there were limits. just that many DMs ignored them or didn't bother to look for the rules.

Well, finding rules in the 1e DMG always did take a special talent...