Playing Oldschool - White Plume Mountain with 1e
- Thread starter MerricB
- Start date
Trick #4: The Inverted Ziggurat Room
Andy Collins wondered if anyone ever fought the "dry level" monsters... well, my party sort of did. At least they expended a few spells.
After taking a couple of hits from manticore spikes, Adam tossed a fireball at the manticores. It damaged them and shattered the Sea Lion enclosure. Then he tossed a lightning bolt at the water. Zap! The one manticore that was still alive was quickly killed by the Sea Lions. Then another Fireball took care of the Sea Lions.
Meanwhile, the giant crayfish of the top levels were climbing out and attacking the PCs. Sarah and Mat held them off as the other ran around casting spells and firing arrows.
One point of similarity between 1e and 3e: Monsters can do surprising amounts of damage. A crayfish deals 2d8 damage - a huge deal in a system where the fighter only has 7d10 hp (and this one had no con bonus!) One point of dissimiliarity between 1e and 3e: PC damage doesn't increase that much.
A few sleep and web spells later, the scorpions of level C were bound. The Crayfish were crushed. Then, with the upper level's glass shattered, the scorpions drowned.
Andy: Yes, my players didn't really feel the dry monsters mattered, either!
I'd given one of the PCs a potion of waterbreathing (and another a ring of water walking). So, once again, the party scout... Ben the MU... went on alone to see what he could find. Hmm. A wall of force blocking the lower exit. Drains that would (eventually) get rid of the water. Oh, and a safe. Well, he had a knock spell - and the trap was irrelevant by this time. So, treasure!
That's right... each GP is worth 1 XP, and there's also XP for magic items.
Here's a question: what does a PC do with all that gold? Well, there's training (if you used the rule - I never did). After that? Not that much. Eventually a castle?
There's a purpose for gold in 3e: to buy magic items. It really doesn't have any purpose beyond XP in 1e.
Cheers!
Andy Collins wondered if anyone ever fought the "dry level" monsters... well, my party sort of did. At least they expended a few spells.
After taking a couple of hits from manticore spikes, Adam tossed a fireball at the manticores. It damaged them and shattered the Sea Lion enclosure. Then he tossed a lightning bolt at the water. Zap! The one manticore that was still alive was quickly killed by the Sea Lions. Then another Fireball took care of the Sea Lions.
Meanwhile, the giant crayfish of the top levels were climbing out and attacking the PCs. Sarah and Mat held them off as the other ran around casting spells and firing arrows.
One point of similarity between 1e and 3e: Monsters can do surprising amounts of damage. A crayfish deals 2d8 damage - a huge deal in a system where the fighter only has 7d10 hp (and this one had no con bonus!) One point of dissimiliarity between 1e and 3e: PC damage doesn't increase that much.
A few sleep and web spells later, the scorpions of level C were bound. The Crayfish were crushed. Then, with the upper level's glass shattered, the scorpions drowned.
Andy: Yes, my players didn't really feel the dry monsters mattered, either!
I'd given one of the PCs a potion of waterbreathing (and another a ring of water walking). So, once again, the party scout... Ben the MU... went on alone to see what he could find. Hmm. A wall of force blocking the lower exit. Drains that would (eventually) get rid of the water. Oh, and a safe. Well, he had a knock spell - and the trap was irrelevant by this time. So, treasure!
That's right... each GP is worth 1 XP, and there's also XP for magic items.
Here's a question: what does a PC do with all that gold? Well, there's training (if you used the rule - I never did). After that? Not that much. Eventually a castle?
There's a purpose for gold in 3e: to buy magic items. It really doesn't have any purpose beyond XP in 1e.
Cheers!
diaglo said:
Although I normally would, I didn't in this case.
Indeed it is - though again, I'm not bothering that much for this game. I wasn't intending to give XP at all, but Ben talked me into it. (He's now a level 8 wizard - that gave him one additional 4th level spell/day and 1 extra hit point!
)That explains why Paladins had to tithe it to the church!
Cheers!
francisca
I got dice older than you.
Can't speak to 2e and THAC0, but the attack matrix for fighters in the 1e DMG improved by 2 every two levels, and had this note below it:johnsemlak said:
Personally, I use an attack matrix found in The Dragon which shows a 5% increment per level for fighters, and the appropriate changes for other classes. I punched it into an excel spreadsheet and then pdf'd. If any Grognards out there want a copy, let me know.1e DMG said:
Wandering Monster!
Is it my imagination, or are wandering monsters less used today? They do exist in wilderness travel. (Oh, the boredom of eight straight guaranteed wandering monsters in Encounter at Blackwall Keep as the PCs travelled to the Lizardfolk lair... please, let a 1 in 6 chance return to adventures!)
My party had been hurt quite a bit by the preceding encounters, so they decided that it was a good time to take a rest. In the middle of the dungeon. Right...
I got down to rolling dice. After twelve unsuccessful rolls (the chance was 1 on 1d12, roll every turn), I finally got one. And it was an INVISIBLE STALKER! COOL! I've never run one of those before!
Invisible Stalkers surprise 5 in 6, and Sarah's the only one on watch. This should be good...
I roll for surprise... and get a SIX! DAMN IT!!! Sarah noticed it come in!
What can I say about the resulting combat? That it was short and brutal? That'd be a lie. That it was messy and extremely amusing? That'd be closer to the truth.
Sarah woke the others (1 minute combat rounds... yay), and the party got ready to face the foe. Adam, needing to go to a Christmas Party and not caring too much, threw a fireball at the Stalker. Yes, this is at ground zero. Ben runs the other way very quickly, and is the only one not in the blast area. Result: Everyone is still up... except Adam. Yes, he killed himself with his own fireball. (For unknown reasons, nobody tried to stabilize him!)
If you get the impression that everyone in the group isn't taking this entirely seriously, you'd be right.
Sarah continues to roll poorly to hit the stalker, as does it, although I do get a couple of good hits in.
Ben then decides to even the odds with a haste spell. He's used to how it works in 3e. It looks pretty similar in 1e, doesn't it?
If you want a spell that is obscure in full effect, it's hard to go past the 1e haste spell. The text of the spell notes that it ages those under its effect. The DMG notes that the aging is 1 year. The PHB's Constitution table notes that those who magically age must make a System Shock check or die.
This was something of a surprise to Ben when I explained the effect... and Mat and Blake both failed their System Shock checks. (Ben failed as well, but I'd ruled he wasn't in the area of effect; a mistake I note when looking at the spell description now. It's meant to be centred on the caster. Oh, well).
About ten minutes later, when the laughter had subsided (Ben: "I did what?"), Sarah eventually managed to slay the Slayer. (I just wanted to say that). Ben and Sarah looked around at the bodies, and decided to get out of the dungeon and to a nearby town to rest up and recruit new companions.
Blake took my one remaining PC - a human fighter 7. (24 hp. No stat above 14!)
Mat rolled up a new PC under my instructions - a half-orc cleric/assassin.
Adam went off to his party.
Cheers!
Is it my imagination, or are wandering monsters less used today? They do exist in wilderness travel. (Oh, the boredom of eight straight guaranteed wandering monsters in Encounter at Blackwall Keep as the PCs travelled to the Lizardfolk lair... please, let a 1 in 6 chance return to adventures!)
My party had been hurt quite a bit by the preceding encounters, so they decided that it was a good time to take a rest. In the middle of the dungeon. Right...
I got down to rolling dice. After twelve unsuccessful rolls (the chance was 1 on 1d12, roll every turn), I finally got one. And it was an INVISIBLE STALKER! COOL! I've never run one of those before!
Invisible Stalkers surprise 5 in 6, and Sarah's the only one on watch. This should be good...
I roll for surprise... and get a SIX! DAMN IT!!! Sarah noticed it come in!
What can I say about the resulting combat? That it was short and brutal? That'd be a lie. That it was messy and extremely amusing? That'd be closer to the truth.
Sarah woke the others (1 minute combat rounds... yay), and the party got ready to face the foe. Adam, needing to go to a Christmas Party and not caring too much, threw a fireball at the Stalker. Yes, this is at ground zero. Ben runs the other way very quickly, and is the only one not in the blast area. Result: Everyone is still up... except Adam. Yes, he killed himself with his own fireball. (For unknown reasons, nobody tried to stabilize him!)
If you get the impression that everyone in the group isn't taking this entirely seriously, you'd be right.
Sarah continues to roll poorly to hit the stalker, as does it, although I do get a couple of good hits in.
Ben then decides to even the odds with a haste spell. He's used to how it works in 3e. It looks pretty similar in 1e, doesn't it?
If you want a spell that is obscure in full effect, it's hard to go past the 1e haste spell. The text of the spell notes that it ages those under its effect. The DMG notes that the aging is 1 year. The PHB's Constitution table notes that those who magically age must make a System Shock check or die.
This was something of a surprise to Ben when I explained the effect... and Mat and Blake both failed their System Shock checks. (Ben failed as well, but I'd ruled he wasn't in the area of effect; a mistake I note when looking at the spell description now. It's meant to be centred on the caster. Oh, well).
About ten minutes later, when the laughter had subsided (Ben: "I did what?"), Sarah eventually managed to slay the Slayer. (I just wanted to say that). Ben and Sarah looked around at the bodies, and decided to get out of the dungeon and to a nearby town to rest up and recruit new companions.
Blake took my one remaining PC - a human fighter 7. (24 hp. No stat above 14!)
Mat rolled up a new PC under my instructions - a half-orc cleric/assassin.
Adam went off to his party.
Cheers!
Henry
Autoexreginated
When playtesting Module G1 for a Gameday early this year, one of my home group did the same infamous "toasting himself with his own fireball" thing. There was (at first) knowing smiles, and then laughter all around, as everyone EXCEPT the Magic-User and the ogres they were fighting survived.
The funny thing is, while most of my group are 1E and 2E vets and HATE the idea of playing AD&D regularly again, he (a new player, and lover of wizards) said that he wouldn't mind trying it again himself. Something about the micromanagement of EXACT placement of a fireball or lightning bolt in cramped quarters gets him intrigued.
The funny thing is, while most of my group are 1E and 2E vets and HATE the idea of playing AD&D regularly again, he (a new player, and lover of wizards) said that he wouldn't mind trying it again himself.
Something about the micromanagement of EXACT placement of a fireball or lightning bolt in cramped quarters gets him intrigued.
That's really amusing, Henry. The same reaction basically came from my players. (Sarah can't stand 1e, but Mat, Gerard and Ben, all new players, are more intrigued).
Trick #5: Qesnef
Returning to the dungeon, the PCs penetrated the lair of Qesnef, Ogre Magi extraordinare! As noted in the text, he disguised himself as a halfling. The PCs were taken in. "I've been told to stay here by Keraptis, and I can't leave!"
So, Mat's new PC, the half-orc cleric/assassin, decided to walk over, pick up Qesnef, and take him out of the room. Qesnef quickly cast his cold ray spell...
I should point out that Mat rolled "poorly" for his hit points. He had about 14. He failed his save (this is an ongoing theme) and took the full 8d8 hit points damage. He fell over. (Roll up new stats, Mat!) The rest of us got down to combat.
Ben decided to cast Strength on Sarah. Hmm. "Ben, what's the casting time of that spell?" "1 turn" "Ben, 1 turn is ten minutes" "Huh?" "OK, I'll just say you cast it earlier."
I'd never really used Strength in my previous career as a 1e Magic-User. I got to see how effective it was now. Not that effective, but Sarah's fighter went from having a 16 strength to an 18/20 strength - so from +1 damage to +1 to hit and +3 damage.
What can I say about the combat with Qesnef? They overpowered him quickly? That sums it up. Magic missiles from Ben, good hits from Sarah and Gerard, and an Ogre Mage who couldn't actually hit anything...
Then they got down to the looting. As I've alluded to before, I wasn't bothering with any identify rule. So, a +2 set of platemail, a ring of mirror images, a ring of protection +3, and Blackrazor! A +3 sword. What type of sword? I don't know. Look, it says in the module, "sword".
Gerard grabbed the sword. (He's playing a fighter at this stage. Sarah's playing the dwarf fighter, and Mat's rolling up a druid - he finally got some *very* good rolls. Oh, and Ben is playing a magic-user.)
The party retreat from the dungeon again to rest and recuperate - and Ben becomes an 8th level MU as he finally gets me to calculate XP.
Cheers!
The same reaction basically came from my players. (Sarah can't stand 1e, but Mat, Gerard and Ben, all new players, are more intrigued).Trick #5: Qesnef
Returning to the dungeon, the PCs penetrated the lair of Qesnef, Ogre Magi extraordinare! As noted in the text, he disguised himself as a halfling. The PCs were taken in. "I've been told to stay here by Keraptis, and I can't leave!"
So, Mat's new PC, the half-orc cleric/assassin, decided to walk over, pick up Qesnef, and take him out of the room. Qesnef quickly cast his cold ray spell...
I should point out that Mat rolled "poorly" for his hit points. He had about 14. He failed his save (this is an ongoing theme) and took the full 8d8 hit points damage. He fell over. (Roll up new stats, Mat!) The rest of us got down to combat.
Ben decided to cast Strength on Sarah. Hmm. "Ben, what's the casting time of that spell?" "1 turn" "Ben, 1 turn is ten minutes" "Huh?" "OK, I'll just say you cast it earlier."
I'd never really used Strength in my previous career as a 1e Magic-User. I got to see how effective it was now. Not that effective, but Sarah's fighter went from having a 16 strength to an 18/20 strength - so from +1 damage to +1 to hit and +3 damage.
What can I say about the combat with Qesnef? They overpowered him quickly? That sums it up. Magic missiles from Ben, good hits from Sarah and Gerard, and an Ogre Mage who couldn't actually hit anything...
Then they got down to the looting. As I've alluded to before, I wasn't bothering with any identify rule. So, a +2 set of platemail, a ring of mirror images, a ring of protection +3, and Blackrazor! A +3 sword. What type of sword? I don't know. Look, it says in the module, "sword".
Gerard grabbed the sword. (He's playing a fighter at this stage. Sarah's playing the dwarf fighter, and Mat's rolling up a druid - he finally got some *very* good rolls. Oh, and Ben is playing a magic-user.)
The party retreat from the dungeon again to rest and recuperate - and Ben becomes an 8th level MU as he finally gets me to calculate XP.
Cheers!
Trick #6: The mid-air stream and Sir Bluto
Returning to the dungeon, the PCs took the other fork in the Blackrazor area. ("What fork?" asked Sarah. "I described it when you were out of the room," I said. "Oh," said Sarah).
As the PCs got into the kayaks and paddled down the stream, ("Why are you doing this?" "Because they're there." "Oh.") Sir Bluto and his merry henchmen got ready to net them.
I wish to point out that there are *no* rules for nets in core AD&D or in White Plume Mountain. I ruled that saving throws versus paralysis were needed. ("Versus Paralysis?" "Yes." "Not Reflex Saves?" "No." "Oh.") Everyone saved except Ben.
Then Sarah got to work, engaging the villains in melee. She was in for a surprise. ("Sarah?" "Yes?" "You know that +2 platemail you're wearing?" "Yes?" "It's actually platemail of vulnerability. You have an AC of 20!" "Oh.")
Meanwhile, Mat was trying to cast spells. I don't know if you've noticed, but druidic and cleric spells take a while to cast in 1e. I was using a slight variation on the 1e initiative rules (my rules make sense!) so that if the difference between the initiative rolls was greater or equal to the spell's casting time in segments (and the PCs had won initiative), the spell got off first.
Mat's spells were taking 4+ segments to cast. He wasn't casting many spells successfully. A bit of a pity, because Summon Insects is such a *nasty* spell. (1d4 damage per round, and the recipient can't act for its duration - no save allowed!)
Ben was making saves against paralysis. Eventually he de-netted himself and started using magic missiles against the foes. (Mainly Sir Bluto). With a 1 segment casting time, it's much more likely to be successfully cast.
And Gerard. Gerard, who was wielding Blackrazor... He killed a minion, and I told him he gained 20 hp and a +4 to attack. He liked that. Blackrazor started singing. "I love the smell of blood in the morning! I love the smell of the blood in the evening!"
Sarah started getting annoyed. "Why do I get platemail of vulnerability while he gets Blackrazor?"
Gerard killed another minion. Now, I could be wrong about this, but from the description in WPM, he gets *another* +4 bonus to attack and 20 hp. (They were F4 minions). Oh dear. At least his damage hasn't increased. He can't miss, but he still takes a little time to kill things. Blackrazor casts haste on Gerard. ("Make a System Shock roll, Gerard!" "Made it!" "Oh.")
Sarah keeps getting hit by Sir Bluto, but Gerard has almost finished the minions... they're finished! And so, Sir Bluto suddenly finds that Blackrazor isn't fun to fight against. Gerard is victorious! (Sarah's still alive, surprisingly).
At this point we ended the session. Gerard and Ben really want to continue this adventure; Sarah isn't so sure. Well, I'll decide after Christmas, as it looks unlikely that we can play again before then.
I had fun. I didn't take it too seriously (just as well), and things rollocked along. I'll mention that all the preceding description occured in one session of slightly under four hours in length. I don't think it was much faster than my 3e games, though - I run combats much faster than most people I know.
An observation on White Plume Mountain (or White Plum Mountain, as it's called in the classics): every encounter is some sort of trick. You don't have simple "it's a pit" or "it's a orc" encounters except for the wandering monsters. At all times, the author is changing the ground rules.
This can get very annoying. Sarah was extremely frustrated by the razor blade traps. She had fly cast on herself already... and fly doesn't work in that room. You get abilities... and then find that you can't use them in areas where they'd actually be useful.
So, will we return to White Plume Mountain? I hope so. It's an interesting glimpse into the past: where men were real men, women were real women, and paranoid half-orc assassins were real paranoid half-orc assassins!
Cheers!
Returning to the dungeon, the PCs took the other fork in the Blackrazor area. ("What fork?" asked Sarah. "I described it when you were out of the room," I said. "Oh," said Sarah).
As the PCs got into the kayaks and paddled down the stream, ("Why are you doing this?" "Because they're there." "Oh.") Sir Bluto and his merry henchmen got ready to net them.
I wish to point out that there are *no* rules for nets in core AD&D or in White Plume Mountain. I ruled that saving throws versus paralysis were needed. ("Versus Paralysis?" "Yes." "Not Reflex Saves?" "No." "Oh.") Everyone saved except Ben.
Then Sarah got to work, engaging the villains in melee. She was in for a surprise. ("Sarah?" "Yes?" "You know that +2 platemail you're wearing?" "Yes?" "It's actually platemail of vulnerability. You have an AC of 20!" "Oh.")
Meanwhile, Mat was trying to cast spells. I don't know if you've noticed, but druidic and cleric spells take a while to cast in 1e. I was using a slight variation on the 1e initiative rules (my rules make sense!) so that if the difference between the initiative rolls was greater or equal to the spell's casting time in segments (and the PCs had won initiative), the spell got off first.
Mat's spells were taking 4+ segments to cast. He wasn't casting many spells successfully. A bit of a pity, because Summon Insects is such a *nasty* spell. (1d4 damage per round, and the recipient can't act for its duration - no save allowed!)
Ben was making saves against paralysis. Eventually he de-netted himself and started using magic missiles against the foes. (Mainly Sir Bluto). With a 1 segment casting time, it's much more likely to be successfully cast.
And Gerard. Gerard, who was wielding Blackrazor... He killed a minion, and I told him he gained 20 hp and a +4 to attack. He liked that. Blackrazor started singing. "I love the smell of blood in the morning! I love the smell of the blood in the evening!"
Sarah started getting annoyed. "Why do I get platemail of vulnerability while he gets Blackrazor?"
Gerard killed another minion. Now, I could be wrong about this, but from the description in WPM, he gets *another* +4 bonus to attack and 20 hp. (They were F4 minions). Oh dear. At least his damage hasn't increased. He can't miss, but he still takes a little time to kill things. Blackrazor casts haste on Gerard. ("Make a System Shock roll, Gerard!" "Made it!" "Oh.")
Sarah keeps getting hit by Sir Bluto, but Gerard has almost finished the minions... they're finished! And so, Sir Bluto suddenly finds that Blackrazor isn't fun to fight against. Gerard is victorious! (Sarah's still alive, surprisingly).
At this point we ended the session. Gerard and Ben really want to continue this adventure; Sarah isn't so sure. Well, I'll decide after Christmas, as it looks unlikely that we can play again before then.
I had fun. I didn't take it too seriously (just as well), and things rollocked along. I'll mention that all the preceding description occured in one session of slightly under four hours in length. I don't think it was much faster than my 3e games, though - I run combats much faster than most people I know.
An observation on White Plume Mountain (or White Plum Mountain, as it's called in the classics): every encounter is some sort of trick. You don't have simple "it's a pit" or "it's a orc" encounters except for the wandering monsters. At all times, the author is changing the ground rules.
This can get very annoying. Sarah was extremely frustrated by the razor blade traps. She had fly cast on herself already... and fly doesn't work in that room. You get abilities... and then find that you can't use them in areas where they'd actually be useful.
So, will we return to White Plume Mountain? I hope so. It's an interesting glimpse into the past: where men were real men, women were real women, and paranoid half-orc assassins were real paranoid half-orc assassins!
Cheers!
