[Playtest 2] Wizard and Rogue HD

[Kobold Avenger]

While I can definitely see that they want to have some continuity with the old HD values of Wizards and Rogues (and most likely Sorcerers and Bards), I think that research in the past has shown that d4 for any class is just too low.

I remember the Arcana Unearthed rational for why Magisters got d6 HD. And I'm pretty sure the Pathfinder team came up with the exact same reason why Wizards (and Sorcerers) should get d6 HD, and Rogues (and Bards) should get D8 HD instead.

And really with Wizards getting either 1d4+con mod or 3 + con mod HP per new level, what's the point of even taking a roll?

 

[Ahnehnois]

I think that research in the past has shown that d4 for any class is just too low.

What research is this?

 

[Larrin]

What research is this?

I would have said field testing instead of research. Anyone who has field tested (used/played next to/killed as a DM) a d4 hd class knows they don't have enough hit points.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I would have said field testing instead of research. Anyone who has field tested (used/played next to/killed as a DM) a d4 hd class knows they don't have enough hit points.

Well, if anyone knows it, I guess it must be true.

Personally I use vp/wp these days so wizards and everyone else have more starting hit points. I just hope they make everyone (weak monsters and weak PCs) on the same footing.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I thought that mike said in a L&L that wiz would have d6

 

[Salamandyr]

The difference in d4 and d6 is only on the average of 1 hp per level.

 

[the Jester]

While I can definitely see that they want to have some continuity with the old HD values of Wizards and Rogues (and most likely Sorcerers and Bards), I think that research in the past has shown that d4 for any class is just too low.

Now contrast this statement with decades of complaints about wizards dominating the game.

I think your assertion is a matter of perspective, opinion and playstyle, not a given.

 

[triqui]

And I'm pretty sure the Pathfinder team came up with the exact same reason why Wizards (and Sorcerers) should get d6 HD, and Rogues (and Bards) should get D8 HD instead.

I think you haven't realized that hit points do not matter, it's the relation of hit points and monsters' damage output what does.

If in Pathfinder a 5th level wizard with Con 12 has 5d6+5 hp, and the regular 5th level troll does 2 attacks of 1d6+5 claws +1d6+7 rend and 1d8+5 bite, the wizard is in a much higher danger than in a system where the 5th level wizard has 5d4+5 and the elite 6th level Troll does 2 x 1d6+2 claws attacks and 1x 1d8+4 bite and a regular 5th level encounter (the Orog) does 1d12+3.

 

[pauljathome]

The difference in d4 and d6 is only on the average of 1 hp per level.

I think that most of us realize that .

Wizards are quite squishy in Pathfinder where they get D6 a level PLUS usually another hit pt per level from favoured class. And DndNext has significantly higher damage numbers than Pathfinder.

Wizards (and rogues, etc) are VERY squishy in DndNext. I strongly suspect that they're SO squishy that the numbers will (again) radically change in the next playtest.

 

[triqui]

And DndNext has significantly higher damage numbers than Pathfinder.

How so?
Troll:
PF 2x1d6+5 +1d6+7 +1d8+5
5e: 2x1d6+2 +1d8+4