D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[Chaosmancer]

Would Friends be better with a saving throw? Success and the target is unknowingly Charmed for 1 minute, failure and the creatures knows that you tried.

I really don't like the new rule that "the creature's reaction depends on how you treated it while charmed". Many NPCs may have serious objections to being charmed in the first place, even if nothing inappropriate happened while they were under the spell.

Friends does have a saving throw now. The spell mentions nothing about the target knowing or not knowing anything about you casting.

Additionally, there is no rule that the creature's reaction depends on treatment. That is a homebrew rule that was being suggested, to clarify that some creatures may or may not react badly to being charmed.

 

[mellored]

Additionally, there is no rule that the creature's reaction depends on treatment.

I think that's just regular social interaction rule.

With or without magic.

 

[Mistwell]

I still want to know why they thought Flex was mathematically the best Weapon Mastery.

I think he said highest direct damage option?

 

[Yaarel]

The spell mentions nothing about the target knowing or not knowing anything about you casting.

The Players Handbook says: "Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all."

It gives reading someones thoughts as the example of an "imperceptible" spell.

In my view, being Charmed is perceptible, especially after it wears off.

But the rules seem unclear now. I would rather the spell specifically mention if the target "notices" it was Charmed.

 

[Kinematics]

The Players Handbook says: "Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all."

It gives reading someones thoughts as the example of an "imperceptible" spell.

In my view, being Charmed is perceptible, especially after it wears off.

But the rules seem unclear now. I would rather the spell specifically mention if the target "notices" it was Charmed.

I would not consider Charmed to be a perceptible effect. I would, however, consider the casting of the Friends spell to be potentially noticeable due to the somatic component and 10' range, and thus something the target could be aware of, and take into account once the charm wore off.

 

[Yaarel]

I would not consider Charmed to be a perceptible effect. I would, however, consider the casting of the Friends spell to be potentially noticeable due to the somatic component and 10' range, and thus something the target could be aware of, and take into account once the charm wore off.

Because I find the spell components themselves problematic, I would avoid them for any kind of mechanic relating to balance.

The spell description itself needs to clarify whether being Charmed is noticeable.

After all, Charmed is not an especially powerful condition. The charmer merely appears likable. It wouldnt even be something that the target would necessarily begrudge, since normal people do all kinds of things to be more likable.

The spell description needs to explain the Rules-As-Intended.

 

[RangerWickett]

I would retool Friends so it enhances you with an instinct of how to be persuasive, rather than messing with the mind of the target you're persuading.

Now there's no reason for the person you're persuading to be upset. It's more like you're taking a self-help course, rather than, I dunno, roofie-ing someone.

 

[mellored]

I would retool Friends so it enhances you with an instinct of how to be persuasive, rather than messing with the mind of the target you're persuading.

Turn it in to an illusion?

 

[RangerWickett]

Eh, does the school of a cantrip even actually matter? I know they want a cantrip of each school, so "make me enchanting" works for me.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The spell description itself needs to clarify whether being Charmed is noticeable.

After all, Charmed is not an especially powerful condition. The charmer merely appears likable. It wouldnt even be something that the target would necessarily begrudge, since normal people do all kinds of things to be more likable.

The spell description needs to explain the Rules-As-Intended.

As you say, the condition is not especially powerful, but also that rule was clearly designed for Enchantment spells. They are one of the few schools of magic that can affect creatures, without an immediately obvious effect, that are actively made worse if the person knows they are under a spell effect.