D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[James Gasik]

Because it applies to 100% of attacks.

Compared to Vex, which doesn't work on the first attack, or if you change targets, or if someone else gives you advantage, or the target dies, or you miss.

1d10+3 vs 1d8+3
Is 13% more damage.

Which is roughly comparable getting advantage half the time.

Doesn't make it any fun though.

Hm, so it's the "magic missile" approach, it's only +1 damage (on average), but it's always on so that makes it great? Ok then. I still don't care for it much.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Because it applies to 100% of attacks.

No it doesn't. It only applies if you hit and does an average of +1 damage. Compare it to Graze that does 3-5 damage if you miss.

Compared to Vex, which doesn't work on the first attack, or if you change targets, or if someone else gives you advantage, or the target dies, or you miss.

1d10+3 vs 1d8+3
Is 13% more damage.

Which is roughly comparable getting advantage half the time.

Only if you take pretty much the best case scenario for Flex. Throw in a Str of 20, Duelist style, and a Flametongue Longsword
1d10 + 7 + 2d6 vs 1d8 + 7 + 2d6 is a little over 5% more damage.

 

[mellored]

No it doesn't. It only applies if you hit and does an average of +1 damage. Compare it to Graze that does 3-5 damage if you miss.

Graze is 2 handed.
Flex was 1 handed.

Not the same category.

Only if you take pretty much the best case scenario for Flex.

And if you have reckless attack,
Vex is kinda useless.
Topple loses a lot too.
Graze isn't great either.
and Cleave gets better.

Again. I'm not sad that Flex is gone.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Not sure why you're comparing those. Shillelagh would come from Magic Initiate, which is a level 1 feat, and isn't competing with Great Weapon Master, which is a level 4 feat.

Because Mellored was doing a damage comparison with a 2d6 weapon. I mean, sure, they don't "compete" but if you got Shillelagh through magic initiate with the intent of using it at level 17 in a dual-wielding club build... what's the point of getting Great Weapon Master? They don't compete for the same slot, but they are competing thematically and practically, because they are mutual exclusive paths of investment. You are using one or the other.

Not sure who this would be for. Your response seems to be on whether Shillelagh would work for barbarian, but barbarian can't pick up a fighting style feat because it doesn't have the Fighting Style feature. (The fighting style feats were changed to having the Fighting Style feature as a prerequisite in UA6, instead of just being level 1 feats.)

Your math is correct, but the context seems off.

Oh, I homebrew Barbarians getting them, just later. Forget sometimes that they have no way to access them anymore, where before they could do it with a feat.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Would Friends be better with a saving throw? Success and the target is unknowingly Charmed for 1 minute, failure and the creatures knows that you tried.

I really don't like the new rule that "the creature's reaction depends on how you treated it while charmed". Many NPCs may have serious objections to being charmed in the first place, even if nothing inappropriate happened while they were under the spell.

 

[Pauln6]

Would Friends be better with a saving throw? Success and the target is unknowingly Charmed for 1 minute, failure and the creatures knows that you tried.

I really don't like the new rule that "the creature's reaction depends on how you treated it while charmed". Many NPCs may have serious objections to being charmed in the first place, even if nothing inappropriate happened while they were under the spell.

Many movies use the trope of the Npc realising they've been duped after the event. Few of them swear vengeance.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Many movies use the trope of the Npc realising they've been duped after the event. Few of them swear vengeance.

Friends is more like drugging someone to make them more cooperative. Regardless of what happens they probably won't give you the time of day the next time you meet them.

 

[mellored]

Friends is more like drugging someone to make them more cooperative. Regardless of what happens they probably won't give you the time of day the next time you meet them.

Considering the component is Makeup. I don't see it as being drugged, any more than some high heels and a push up bra would drug someone.

 

[Pauln6]

Considering the component is Makeup. I don't see it as being drugged, any more than some high heels and a push up bra would drug someone.

Just a sweet transvestite... now I know what Frankenfurter was doing!

 

[Gadget]

Ahh...friends does have a saving throw. It just does not have immediately hostile response on a failed save. I think many people miss the fact that the Charmed condition is not real mind control, all it does is give you advantage on CHA checks against the target (like the help action) and prevent them from attacking you (which approaches mind control, but given how easily the spell ends on numerous triggers, does not seem to be much of a problem).