D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[Kurotowa]

You're missing a couple of options. Celestial warlocks can use it in place of Eldritch Blast at up to level 10, and Artillerist artificers can use it with their staff firearms (and IMO should be allowed to use crossbows or muskets as firearms) - and non-battlesmiths might want to use it with actual firearms. Also dance bards can go True Strike as a legit option and have a mixed weapon and unarmed style.

As I did mention in the fourth paragraph, Artillerists can't use it well because their Arcane Firearm is specifically restricted to Artificer spells, and True Strike isn't on the list. AFAIK picking it up from a race or feat doesn't make it an Artificer spell.

You're right that there's a narrow synergy between Celestial Warlock and True Strike, but I don't give it much weight. It gives up all the Eldritch Blast add-on invocations, and if you want a melee playstyle with a Warlock just take Blade Pact and do it better. With Pacts being invocations now there's little upside to not taking Blade Pact.

Dance Bards have the same MAD problem as Eldritch Knights and Bladesingers where you're forced to mix attack types. It's viable, but not particularly strong. But on reflection I may have undersold it. Still, it's pulling in two directions at once, and I never like that.

 

[Neonchameleon]

As I did mention in the fourth paragraph, Artillerists can't use it well because their Arcane Firearm is specifically restricted to Artificer spells, and True Strike isn't on the list. AFAIK picking it up from a race or feat doesn't make it an Artificer spell.

Point

You're right that there's a narrow synergy between Celestial Warlock and True Strike, but I don't give it much weight. It gives up all the Eldritch Blast add-on invocations, and if you want a melee playstyle with a Warlock just take Blade Pact and do it better. With Pacts being invocations now there's little upside to not taking Blade Pact.

That depends what else you want the invocations for. The Celestial build is a Tomelock that uses all their invocations for utility power and is very much a swiss army knife problem solver in a relatively low combat campaign. Eldritch Blast requires a minimum of one invocation by level 5 to be viable (Agonizing Blast), while the Bladelock requires two to get the extra attack. True Strike with Celestial Pact requires none.

Dance Bards have the same MAD problem as Eldritch Knights and Bladesingers where you're forced to mix attack types. It's viable, but not particularly strong. But on reflection I may have undersold it. Still, it's pulling in two directions at once, and I never like that.

Dance Bards are already pulling in two directions at once (Cha/Dex). This is rough at first level but a 16/16 or even with Point Buy 17/16 is possible. But then you can't level both stats in tandem without real problems. The True Strike build is for people who level up Cha. The problem isn't the spell, it's the subclass and the spell patches the worst of it.

 

[Weiley31]

Unless there is something I'm missing, basically any caster can become decent in melee by taking Blade Ward + True Strike.

Gives the Bladesinger these two.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Unless there is something I'm missing, basically any caster can become decent in melee by taking Blade Ward + True Strike.

Instagish!

I like it.

Depends what you mean by "decent in melee". True Strike only deals Firebolt-level damage and will be behind anyone with a second attack - and AC 15ish (studded leather or mage armour with no shield) and disadvantage 1/round isn't great. But it isn't suicidal in the way it used to be and that's a huge win

 

[mellored]

I'd like the caster to be able to use it with a bow or crossbow, both of which are two-handed.

How about you only get the ability score modifier if it's melee?
So...

1d8 medium ranged or 1d8+3 melee.
Vs
1d10 long range.
Vs
1d12 short range.

 

[mellored]

Level 17:

Shillelagh + true strike + primal strike
= 2d6+5+3d6+2d8
= 31.5

3 attacks from sword and board fighter
1d8+5 * 3
= 28.5

Rogue
1d8+5+9d6
= 41

 

[Chaosmancer]

Level 17:

Shillelagh + true strike + primal strike
= 2d6+5+3d6+2d8
= 31.5

3 attacks from sword and board fighter
1d8+5 * 3
= 28.5

Rogue
1d8+5+9d6
= 41

Ummm... That is a very bizarre comparison. Why is the Sword and Board fighter either using a +3 mod or not using the Dueling fighting style? Also, Druid's don't get True Strike, so you are talking about taking a feat to get that anyways.

So, just adding the fighting style and not a feat, we get.

Shillelagh + true strike + primal strike
= 2d6+5+3d6+2d8
= 31.5

3 attacks from sword and board fighter with Dueling Style
1d8+7 * 3
= 34.5

Rogue
1d8+5+9d6
= 41


So, yeah. If a Druid takes a feat to get True Strike and increases their damage, they are still likely doing less than a S&B Fighter with a fighting style.

 

[mellored]

Ummm... That is a very bizarre comparison. Why is the Sword and Board fighter either using a +3 mod or not using the Dueling fighting style?

Fair. There is also weapon mastery and studied attack.

Just wanted to do a spot check and see how well those cantrips combined.

Shillelagh + true strike + primal strike
= 2d6+5+3d6+2d8
= 31.5

3 attacks from sword and board fighter with Dueling Style
1d8+7 * 3
= 34.5

Rogue
1d8+5+9d6
= 41

Probably should throw in Eldritch Blast too.
4d10+20= 42.

So yea, not overpowered.

 

[Neonchameleon]

And why only three attacks from the fighter at level 17?

Honestly Eldritch Blast plus Agonizing Blast is an excellent benchmark/gatekeeper. Anything that's significantly behind it just isn't that powerful. That said the other benchmark is a 4d10 firebolt.

 

[mellored]

And why only three attacks from the fighter at level 17?

Because I did the math for truestrike at 17, and didn't feel like looking up all the fighter features and feats.

Honestly Eldritch Blast plus Agonizing Blast is an excellent benchmark/gatekeeper.

Yea. Probably should of went for that first.