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D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

Chaosmancer

Legend
Only because George Lucas said that it is not. There are certainly those in the world who make claims that certain acts aren't evil.

Would you be ok with getting "Jedi Mind Tricked" to do something against your nature? I know I wouldn't.

Sorry to double-respond, but Friends can't force anyone to do something against their will.

Persuasion Checks are not mind-control, and Friends only makes you better at Persuasion checks. Would you be "okay" with being Jedi Mind Tricked into buying someone a drink? Or giving them a ride? Things you could already be convinced to do by someone you just met and was a smooth talker?
 

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Sorry to double-respond, but Friends can't force anyone to do something against their will.

Persuasion Checks are not mind-control, and Friends only makes you better at Persuasion checks. Would you be "okay" with being Jedi Mind Tricked into buying someone a drink? Or giving them a ride? Things you could already be convinced to do by someone you just met and was a smooth talker?
I am offended by lots of marketing and influencing, and politicians, and being forced to choose between bad choices, and I think Enchantment is the most evil spell school in the game. So yeah. If someone tries to manipulate me, I may get pissed. So much control has been taken from me in the world that I very much care about controlling my fate as much as I can.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Only because George Lucas said that it is not. There are certainly those in the world who make claims that certain acts aren't evil.

Would you be ok with getting "Jedi Mind Tricked" to do something against your nature? I know I wouldn't.
None of the Dark Side users use it. Vader will choke you, Kylo Ren literally rips thoughts from your head, and Sideous plays Force users like fiddles, but none ever use mind tricks?
 

Remathilis

Legend
I am offended by lots of marketing and influencing, and politicians, and being forced to choose between bad choices, and I think Enchantment is the most evil spell school in the game. So yeah. If someone tries to manipulate me, I may get pissed. So much control has been taken from me in the world that I very much care about controlling my fate as much as I can.
So you are equally upset about an illusion that gaslights you into believing something is real or a divination that reveals something you do not wish to have revealed, right?

Right?
 


Yet you have more than the majority of people.
Yeah. And I think everyone deserves better than the BS we've been shovel-fed. And it is sometimes confusing and frustrating that many people aren't frustrated with it. Or that we've been convinced that we are alone and alone we don't have the power to change the world for the better.

That said, maybe we shouldn't be going down the real world BS rabbit-hole?
 

So you are equally upset about an illusion that gaslights you into believing something is real or a divination that reveals something you do not wish to have revealed, right?

Right?
Most divinations are self inflicted, but if someone tells me "I see you future and this is your destiny" whether via religious dogma saying I'm going to hell, or an astrologer, or anything mystical, it's not going to land well with me. Don't burden me with your delusions.
 

None of the Dark Side users use it. Vader will choke you, Kylo Ren literally rips thoughts from your head, and Sideous plays Force users like fiddles, but none ever use mind tricks?
OK. So it isn't portrayed in the scripted fiction. What does that matter? The entire depth of a universe cannot be portrayed in scripted media. Even if it is a couple dozen titles. Do any of the RPGs say Dark Side Force users can't use mind tricks? If not, perhaps the writers of a particular story wanted to focus on other Force powers, sometimes unique/limited powers that represent the Dark Side better (Force Lightning, for one).

Any power limitations or lack of representation within scripted media is either completely planned, or just ignored as irrelevant for the needs of that story.
 

Any power limitations or lack of representation within scripted media is either completely planned, or just ignored as irrelevant for the needs of that story.
Like in D&D Honor Among Thieves, I don't recall seeing a Fireball spell even though it's an iconic 3rd level arcane spell that is a staple for many arcane casters, especially blasty sorcerers. Maybe they wanted the impressive display of fire in the story to come from Themberchaud's breath. It doesn't mean the spell doesn't exist. Every writing team makes their choices, in TV, movies, books, comics, and any other scripted media.
 

Most of those other schools have some non creepy use. For me, mind "assault", to use a less triggering word, is essentially always scummy.
The issue I have is that people want to make an exception for Necromancy, making it the only evil school of magic, while ignoring the REALLY DARK GREY school of Enchantment. Because, enchantment is a school that has perhaps the fewest good and neutral use cases out of all of the schools of magic.

A bit late, but I'd like to take a moment and point out that Bless is an Enchantment school effect. If Bardic Inspiration was a spell, it'd also be Enchantment. Heroism. Sleep and Catnap have beneficial uses as a sleep aid. Zone of Truth has uses in a court room. Calm Emotion is drug-like, but it can be used as the equivalent of a mood balancer for, say, someone who's bipolar.

D&D is a game about fantasy violence, so it should be no surprise that most -published- spells aren't nice. But every school has positive effects, including Enchantment and Necromancy. And I'm sure there's many spells that exist in world that we just don't see, because they're useless for adventurers. Imagine the number of wizard spells that would exist for maintaining books and libraries.


Depending on how it's works...

I always felt like having an army of mindless undead would be great for an economy.

Like have them build roads, pick crops, deliver packages, work in steel mills, and other mundane chores like that. Put a small horde of undead rats in a hamster wheel, stick it on a cart, and you got yourself a car.

Assuming your not torturing someone's soul or such.
In 5e, it seems like that the undead, including those from the Raise Dead spell, are created by capturing a "dark spirit" (whatever that is) and shoving it into a corpse. The "dark spirit" then animates the zombie/skeleton and is magically enslaved to obey your command until the spell wears off. At which point, the dark spirit does its own thing, usually attacking the nearest living creature.

Necromancy like this is evil in that it creates murderous creatures that have to be kept under magical domination or they'll turn on anyone living and try to kill them. Which... to be completely fair, is kind of what you do to create most golems, just with elementals being used instead of "dark spirits." Anyways, the point is that undead creation involves non-consentual binding of spirits and said undead being a hazard. Individual tables may vary.
 

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