D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[Yaarel]

I feel Falling Damage needs to be located with Falling and Jumping, in the Athletics Skill Section.

Suffocation should be in the same section as Damage Types.

At least for me, where Suffocation is currently, I never made note of it (despite looking up Light Sources there again and again) and wouldnt have thought to look there for Suffocation.

 

[Neonchameleon]

So lets think of this way. Your playing a 5th level caster, lets say a Bard, a Wizard, and a Cleric. So which cantrips do you actually take now all said and done?

Bard:

• Combat option 1: True Strike + Blade Ward
• Combat option 2: Vicious Mockery (does not combine well with blade ward)
• Utility: Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Message, Friends

Cleric:

• Combat Laser Cleric: Sacred Flame or Toll the Dead
• Combat Str Based: None
• With Magic Initiate:
  • Combat option 1: True Strike for Wis-melee
  • Combat option 2: Booming/Greenflame Blade for Str or Dex Melee
  • Combat option 3: Blade Ward (this may get oppressive with heavy armour and shield variants)
• Utility: Guidance, Resistance, Thaumaturgy

Druid:

• Melee: Primal Savagery or Shillelagh (or neither for Moon)
• Ranged: Circle of Land and Sea: By Order. Moon/Stars: Magic Stone, Produce Flame (no I don't think it's bad), or Poison Spray
• Utility: (Mold Earth, Shape Water) Guidance, Resistance, Druidcraft

Wizard/Sorcerer

• Combat default
  • For "true mages": Firebolt (or Poison Spray for the terminally reckless)
  • Viable option for people who like weapons: True Strike with crossbow and dagger
  • Draconic Sorcerers: Replace Firebolt with something that matches their elemental type if ranged
  • "Cheap" Aberrant Minds: Mind Sliver is good enough
• Optional backup combat spells depending on DM tactics: Acid Splash, Blade Ward, Shocking/Chilling Grasp
• Utility: Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Friends, Message (Also Mold Earth, Shape Water)

Warlock:

• Combat:
  • Blade Pact: (Melee): Blade Ward + some ranged cantrip (Thirsting Blade >> melee cantrip).
  • Tome Pact: Eldritch Blast. Possibly with Blade Ward and a melee cantrip.
  • "Cheap" Celestial: True Strike, possibly Blade Ward. Can ultra-cheap and just Sacred Flame.
• Utility: Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Message, Minor Illusion, Friends
• Tome Pact Utility: Guidance, Mold Earth, Shape Water, Resistance, Thaumaturgy

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I dont get why True Strike does not use the same wording as Shillelagh. Both gives you a weapon attack with you spellcasting stat and improved damage. Why does one last for a while and the other needs to be cast round after round?

In my ideal world, True Strike, Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, Vampiric Touch, Flame Blade, Shadow Blade etc
would all work the same:

• Change weapon attack roll for spell attack roll.
• A change to their damage die
• Some rider effects.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I dont get why True Strike does not use the same wording as Shillelagh. Both gives you a weapon attack with you spellcasting stat and improved damage. Why does one last for a while and the other needs to be cast round after round?

Different interactions with multiattack? A/B testing?

In my ideal world, True Strike, Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, Vampiric Touch, Flame Blade, Shadow Blade etc
would all work the same:

• Change weapon attack roll for spell attack roll.
• A change to their damage die
• Some rider effects.

In mine this really wouldn't be the case - they'd work differently because they are different things - although there is some rationalisation possible.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That's kind of my point! Who needs a cantrip, I can just say something like "Where's mah 5e Warlord?" and instantly get the ire of other people!

You could also say: "I hate the concept of the warlord." and get an equal amount of hate.

 

[mellored]

True strike just needs better scaling.

1d8 bonus for one handed or ranged weapons
1d12 bonus for 2handed melee weapons

Since it is Radiant damage, rather than Weapon damage, maybe the scaling d8 for any weapon.

Your missing that you get to add your modifier to damage.

1d8+3 is 7.5
Vs
1d12 which is 6.5

That makes it the second most damaging cantrip. Only Eldrich Blast doing more.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I realized that True Strike can also be used with ranged weapons. That means Muskets, Pistols, Crossbows or Bows can be viable for some casters with True Strike.

 

[Yaarel]

Your missing that you get to add your modifier to damage.

1d8+3 is 7.5
Vs
1d12 which is 6.5

That makes it the second most damaging cantrip. Only Eldrich Blast doing more.

Right, but the True Strike addition of the ability only happens once, not multiple times while scaling to higher tiers, the way Multiple Attack does.

The concern is about the cantrip being effective at the higher tiers. While also watching out for combos at the higher tiers.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I calculated that True Strike with a Magical Rapier with bonuses of +1 or higher at certain levels, actually could do the equivalent average damage of a d10 Cantrip. Like a level 17 Firebolt with a 22 damage average, vs a +2 Rapier with True Strike at 17th level could do an average of 4.5+3*3.5+5(ability mod)+2=22 damage. Though by 17th level they might be using something stronger than just a +2 rapier.

 

[mellored]

Right, but the True Strike addition of the ability only happens once, not multiple times while scaling to higher tiers, the way Multiple Attack does.

But it's not a 5th level martial ability.

It's a cantrip. You need to compare it to other cantrips.

And great club + light crossbow (just swap) + true stike is now the default attack cantrip every caster will have.

Not to mention it can stack all cantrip bonuses (agonizing blast, potent cantrip) and all weapon bonuses (clerics divine strike).