D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[Mephista]

You are correct.

But it doesn't count as a "monk weapon" like hand crossbows do.

So a d12 hand crossbow that can stunning strike.

Ah, I see. Yes, that's an odd issue.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I had forgotten about the Weapon Master feat, so there is a way to get Nick without dipping and delaying your Monk progression, albeit one that comes online at Level 4.

omg I forgot that feat came out on its own... However, without sneak attack or the fighting style, the extra Nick attack is just for a single die of unarmed damage.

Actually, now that I think about it, the change to Grapple and Shove does kind of give the regular Unarmed Attack a purpose. A somewhat situational one, but undeniably effective.

Oh yeah, I don't like grappling with dexterity. I liked the differentiation between monks and the strong guys in that regard.

 

[Vikingkingq]

omg I forgot that feat came out on its own... However, without sneak attack or the fighting style, the extra Nick attack is just for a single die of unarmed damage.

True, but it is a single die every turn, so it adds up.

Oh yeah, I don't like grappling with dexterity. I liked the differentiation between monks and the strong guys in that regard.

I think the Monk needs all the help it can get for dealing with MAD.

 

[mellored]

Ah, I see. Yes, that's an odd issue.

I mean, if you are going to give them a ranged monk weapon, then the hand crossbow with 1 handed and short range is probably the one you want.

But still kinda seems like an oversight.

 

[Mephista]

True, but it is a single die every turn, so it adds up.

Maybe. I ran the numbers and its about ~2.7 extra damage (1d8, avg 4.5, 60% hit chance) on average at level 5, with a trade off in lower AC. Also with the possibility of lower DEX score, which would actually lower your damage from the lower to-hit and extra +1 damage on a hit from four attacks.

 

[mellored]

True, but it is a single die every turn, so it adds up.

Using a feat gain 1 damage die per turn seems a little on the weaker side.

Remember you still need to make the attack roll.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Remember you still need to make the attack roll.

And eventually you may need to find an extra magic weapon of the right type. Empowered Strikes only applies to unarmed.

 

[Kurotowa]

Well, the Crossbow Expert feat is pretty tasty and you can't get that for Slings or Darts.

But is it good for Monks? The 2014 Crossbow Expert gives an extra attack as a Bonus Action, and Monks already get that. But that's probably not even valid, because there's a 2024 Crossbow Expert with an entirely different set of benefits. Which are, let's see... Ignore Loading, Firing in Melee, and Dual Wielding. None of which look particularly attractive to a Monk, IMO.

Also, I'd lay decent odds that once they clear up the wording, Monks will have proficiency with Hand Crossbows but Hand Crossbows won't count as Monk Weapons. Which is to say, no scaling with the Martial Arts Die. And for that matter, Darts are off the list too, so let me correct myself. The Monk's best ranged option is a few throwing Daggers. Handaxes, Light Hammers, and Spears all work too, but are heavier. And Monks don't usually have enough Strength for a lot of extra encumberence.

 

[Charlaquin]

It's a good counterpart to the Rogue's Uncanny Dodge, with enough downsides that I don't think it'll make them into tanks. It has a higher minimum than Uncanny Dodge, able to negate smaller hits entirely, but doesn't scale up against big hits.

Yeah, I briefly had the thought that this was kinda stealing the rogue’s thunder, but with rogues now getting cunning strike, monks and rogues can share the “dash or disengage as a bonus action” space while still each having their own cool thing.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

But is it good for Monks? The 2014 Crossbow Expert gives an extra attack as a Bonus Action, and Monks already get that. But that's probably not even valid, because there's a 2024 Crossbow Expert with an entirely different set of benefits. Which are, let's see... Ignore Loading, Firing in Melee, and Dual Wielding. None of which look particularly attractive to a Monk, IMO.

Everyone with two Light weapons gets to make a Bonus action extra attack.
New Crossbow Expert gives the two-weapon fighting style's benefit.
Monk keeps making this monk weapon's damage die bigger.
Monk can now Stunning Strike with their crossbows...

It's fine. The main hurdle is getting the Archery fighting style.