Playtest - Disappearances in the Village

[Doug McCrae]

Given that his entire adventure is subsumed into one of the many Caves of Chaos I wonder why, but whatever.

The main weakness of KotBL, imho, is it's way too same-y. There's something like six tribes of humanoids, and they are all basically alike but with different hit dice. It benefits greatly from pruning.

There is some good stuff in the original module, like the traitor in the keep, the mini-sandbox aspect, the crazy hermit, the crazy berserker, but it's mostly just holes in the ground with monsters in, and much the same monsters, in the same format - room with males, room with females and young, room with chieftain and his retinue, treasure - repeated six times.

The lack of any kind of colour, even NPC names, is, for me, a major weakness. I know the DM is expected to write that himself but, tbh, the author has done the easy part. Anyone can write, "Room 1: 11 orcs with 4sp each. Room 2: Orc chief (3HD) and his bodyguard (fights as hobgoblin). 100 gp concealed behind loose rock. Room 3: Shrine to the orc god of slavery. Shaman (level 3 cleric) and two acolytes. 20gp worth of offerings." There's nothing fun or interesting there.

Ellington's modifications form a nice structure I think - goblin encounter, the inn, the spooky graveyard, dungeon with undead and cultists - and it's good that the fighting is broken up by roleplaying and investigation. The bit at the start where the warlord kills his own guy was good fun too - that's Vader-esque BBEG style!

 

[Ellington]

Given that his entire adventure is subsumed into one of the many Caves of Chaos I wonder why, but whatever.

I didn't take anything from the module actually. I just took monsters from the bestiary and put them together to form what I thought was a fair challenge, and the out of combat DCs were set using the guidelines in the DM guide.

I'm glad you guys liked the report, I'll be sure to post the shenanigans from our next session!

 

[Andor]

I didn't take anything from the module actually. I just took monsters from the bestiary and put them together to form what I thought was a fair challenge, and the out of combat DCs were set using the guidelines in the DM guide.

I'm glad you guys liked the report, I'll be sure to post the shenanigans from our next session!

Oh I wasn't accusing you of pinching from it, but your 'end game' encounter is practically right out of the "Cult of evil" section of the Caves.

My reading of the Caves of Chaos playtest module wasn't as close as it might have been, but I don't think it had a village, nor an encounter with goblins en route, nor a rival archer to drink under the table in a pub, nor a graveyard with a crypt door that is opened by sacrificing a villager on a tomb's headstone.

Nope, it didn't have a local keep whose lord was willing to grant the PCs title to the valley if they cleared it our either, but my players met him anyway. Filled in by my 20 year old vague recollection of 'keep on the borderlands.' There was also nothing in it about the local goblins having a superstitious fear of flying, fire breathing skulls but they do now (after meeting my PCs.) Campaign worlds live and breath because the DM and Players give life to them. A module cannot do it for you, it can only inspire.

 

[pemerton]

The lack of any kind of colour, even NPC names, is, for me, a major weakness.

<snip>

Ellington's modifications form a nice structure I think - goblin encounter, the inn, the spooky graveyard, dungeon with undead and cultists - and it's good that the fighting is broken up by roleplaying and investigation. The bit at the start where the warlord kills his own guy was good fun too - that's Vader-esque BBEG style!

Yes. Especially to the bit after the snippage.

It's not just a lack of colour - a random name generator can plug that gap if you're that desperate as a GM - it's that there's nothing going on. There are no serious motivations on which to hang anything.

I know [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] has compared B2 unfavourably to B4, but I traded my copy of B4 a long time ago for G1-3, and don't remember too much about it. (I think I have an e-copy, but haven't read it.)

But I'll compare to another B module - B10, Night's Dark Terror. I started my 4th ed game with that moduel, and only now - at 16th level - have I used more-or-less everything I envisage using from it. (Of course a lot of other stuff has been used in those levels too, both my own ideas as well as bits and pieces of Sleeper in Dreams, H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth, Sceptre Tower of Spellgard, Heathen, and Eden Odyssey's Wonders Out of Time.)

But what B10 has is NPCs with names, histories, relationships and motivations. And it has ideas on how to relate them. The basic plot goes: (i) NPC hires PCs to take some horses to market; (ii) PCs arrive at homestead to find it under attack and save it; (iii) PCs learn that the NPC who hired them has been captured; (iv) PCs rescue said NPC; (v) PCs learn that motivation for attacks is a hunt for a tapestry in the NPC's homestead that is a magical map to hidden treasure; (vi) PCs hunt for said treasure.

I didn't use the plot in this form much beyond step (iii) - the PCs learned about the tapestry before saving the NPC, and I changed what the map leads to so that that hunt will be different from what is in the module. And I turned other bits of the module away from the author's intended purposes to my own and my players'.

But the ideas in the module are still great. And it has some richly thematic locations, with NPCs around them or in them who are easy to hook onto and link into a broader compelling backstory. Even when I depart from the module writers' ideas, those ideas suggest other ideas or connections that can be made. (For example, the module assumes that when the PCs come to the ancient city to rescue the hiring NPC, they will find him imprisoned and under interrogation from the enemy NPCs wizard. When the PCs in my game came to the ancient city - a minotaur city, borrowed from Thunderspire Labyrinth - I had them see the NPC wizard fly off on his flying carpet, and then put the NPC under interrogation in the first Thunderspire Labyrinth encounter, in place of the halfling NPC it uses at that point.)

your 'end game' encounter is practically right out of the "Cult of evil" section of the Caves.

It seemed to have some traps, which aren't there in the Cult of Evil, are they?

And more importantly, it had a location (a graveyard), a context (provided by the rest of the OP's adventure, plus the location), and colour (sacrificing villagers to open a secret entry) which are nowhere present in the Cult of Evil.

The Cult of Evil make me ask, "What are these cultists doing hanging out in some caves? Who are they corrupting? Where do they get their food from?" whereas the OP's adventure makes me think straight away of evil cultists subverting a village by recruiting supersitutious peasants, sacrificing villagers to dark and ancient gods, turning the hallowwed ground of the graveyard into a haunted place, etc. I'm not at all suggesting that these are original tropes, and I don't think the OP is either. But it's classic fantasy gaming. (The Burning Wheel Adventure Burner has a somewhat similar adventure in it, and if I ever run that adventure I'm going to incorporate some of the ideas in the OPs set-up - I especially like the archer in the pub.)

Nope, it didn't have a local keep whose lord was willing to grant the PCs title to the valley if they cleared it our either, but my players met him anyway. Filled in by my 20 year old vague recollection of 'keep on the borderlands.' There was also nothing in it about the local goblins having a superstitious fear of flying, fire breathing skulls but they do now (after meeting my PCs.)

I don't think anyone was criticising your playtest run. For all I know, it was as entertaining as the OP's seems to be! But telling me how much good stuff you added to the Caves of Chaos isn't selling me on the Caves of Chaos.

Campaign worlds live and breath because the DM and Players give life to them. A module cannot do it for you, it can only inspire.

One way to put it, then, would be that I don't find the Caves of Chaos very inspiring.

But anyway, I think what you say is far too limited a view of what a module can do. And for me it's limitations are borne out by comparing B2 to B10, or to any of the old Oriental Adventures modules (especially O3 Ochimo, the Spirit Warrior and O7 Test of the Samurai) or to Speaker in Dreams or Bastion of Broken Souls, or to any of the Penumbra modules (especially Maiden Voyage or 3 Days to Kill). These modules all do more than merely inspire - they provide compelling and gripping situations (people and locaions in conflicts that the PCs have reasons to take a side in) that the GM can use to engage the players and really pour on some pressure and drive the game.

Of course all of these - and esecially Bastion of Broken Souls and Test of the Samurai - have some silly suggestions about how the action might resolve, and try to push the GM into needless railroading. But you can ignore all that and still get great mileage out of the situations presented.

Just to take one example from Bastion of Broken Souls - to rescue the souls of the unborn from oblivion, the PCs have to speak to a god who was exiled and locked up in an earlier era for his tampering with those very souls. The only way in to the exiled god's prison is through a gate - and that gate is an angel, and will open only if the angel is killed. What do the PCs do? Defy the gods and kill an angel? Obey the gods and abandon the souls of the unborn? Or, as the PCs in my game did, persuade the angel to defy the gods and kill herself? I reckon that's pretty good material for heroic fantasy RPGing.

The Caves of Chaos doesn't offer much of that sort of thing. The rivalries between the tribes, for example, don't seem to speak of anything of thematic significance and power. The imprisonment of the medusa, which could be interesting, is left unexplained. As I've already noted, the cult has no raison d'etre.

Frankly, the Caves of Chaos is pretty underwhelming as far as modules go.

 

[jadrax]

I remember and anecdote from a friend of mine, big WFRP fan, who for years had been hunting a copy of Death on the Reik. He would go to conventions where everyone would always tell him about how awesome the river travelling segment was, how much fun they had, how it was the best published scenario ever.

A few years ago he finally got hold of a copy. He was quite shocked when the river travelling section turned out to be 'Your players will be travelling on the river for a large part of this time, make some encounters up'.

 

[pemerton]

He was quite shocked when the river travelling section turned out to be 'Your players will be travelling on the river for a large part of this time, make some encounters up'.

Nice story!

 

[Andor]

The Cult of Evil make me ask, "What are these cultists doing hanging out in some caves? Who are they corrupting? Where do they get their food from?"

That's kind of the point though. The Keep on the Borderlands/Caves of Chaos is a, perhaps the, classic sandbox module. It doesn't tell you what the plot is, is hands you a batch of questions and makes you write the answers yourself.

And in doing so, it ensures that the module will be yours when you run it.

One of my favorite WHFRPG modules is Lichemaster. It's full of properly sketched out characters, macbre motivations, and a plot that runs on it's own timeline. I've run the campaign at least twice, my players always loved it. But I suspect that they would have had much the same experience at anyones table. That tight plot and those well written character don't leave much room for the GMs own signature.

For the caves of chaos however it's less like paint-by-numbers and more like starting with connect the dots only there is no one right way to do it.

 

[Ellington]

My group had another session tonight and a new player joined in. We were at six players so the group decided that a fun way to implement a new character was to have the new player play as the cocky archer the party met in the last session. We statted him as a human fighter with the commoner background and the lurker theme. He had a longbow and a high dexterity score and it was fairly easy to piece together.

The session began at the tavern where they were having a conversation with the new player who told the party that he had a map showing a treasure north of the village that had been handed down to him by his newly deceased father. After coming to terms on how to split the treasure, they decided that they wanted to rent some horses to reduce travel time. As is customary of our D&D runs, this took way more time than it should have, as the players haggled for ages with the man renting them their horses for a few silver pieces and argued over who would share horses. Finally they rode out of town but were stopped by the captain of the guard that warned them of a vicious pack of gnolls that had been pestering travellers in the forest north of the village, led by a pack lord known as Mudscalp. They told the guard that they'd bring him the heads of the gnolls for a bounty and rode off. Nothing drastic happened on the way, so no rolls needed to be made for a ride check since the riders all had training in Animal Handling.

When they came to the forest they left the horses with a stableboy and told him they'd be back the following day. They headed off into the forest and the archer and the rogue scouted ahead stealthily. After a while they heard some noises and came upon a weird little gnome sitting in the forest making soup. After some conversation and insight checks they deduced that he was a bit weird but not malevolent, so they joined him for a dish on mushroom soup and he gave them an offer to buy a strange vial of a pink substance he had found in the woods. The rogue gave him some gold pieces decided to keep the potion, which didn't come up for the rest of the run. They bid the gnome farewell and followed the map towards the treasure. On their way there they encountered some tracks which they discovered matched those of gnolls.

Even though the tracks led to a different path than that of the treasure, they did the adventurous thing and followed them and came upon a small campsite. They snuck around and got into position, but the gnolls spotted some of the less stealthy party members and a fight ensued. There were 7 gnolls as well as a pack lord. The gnolls tried for pack tactics and went in pairs of two while the pack lord stayed behind and used his evil powers to enrage his gnolls. The gnolls rolled well and got some good hits in, but the rogue and the fighter managed to down two of the gnolls from stealth. The fighter and the cleric of Moradin took to the front lines and defended the cleric of Pelor and the wizard. The wizard positioned himself for some good uses of Burning Hands while the cleric of Pelor threw Radiant Lances all over the place.

The gnolls fell pretty quickly, but the rogue got cocky and tried to attack the pack lord who managed to down the rogue in one hit thanks to a lucky roll. The party ganged up on the pack lord who fought for a while and stayed alive for a pretty long time since he healed up whenever one of his gnolls got to 0 HP. The cleric was happy that he could bring the rogue up from 0 HP with his healing word spell and still be able to attack the leader. They eventually managed to defeat them all and cut off their heads to bring back to the village as bounty. They had a rest, took some shifts and the cleric of Pelor used his herbalism to create a healing potion with ingredients from the forest.

The next morning they followed the map which led them to a small cave opening which was adorned with heads on spikes. The rogue spotted a gnoll head on one of the spikes and decided to bring it back for a little more bounty. What the guard doesn't know won't hurt him, right? The rogue scouted ahead and discovered that an ogre resided in the cave. After a small discussion on how to approach, they decided to light a fire and smoke him out. The rogue and the archer decided to position themselves on top of the cave entrance, which proved to be a mistake.

The ogre came out, stepping on the campfire and took a little fire damage. As the party faced the ogre the pair upon the entrance realized that the smoke from the fire was giving the ogre concealment, so they needed to reposition themselves to be able to gain their stealthy advantage rolls. The fight went pretty well, but it wasn't really much of a threat since the players had 6 actions for every 1 action the ogre got. The cleric of Pelor was happy with his first casting of Spiritual Hammer which upped his damage output by a lot, even if his other spells didn't hit. The ogre got in around two hits before he was downed, and the players noted that his HP might have been a bit excessive when he posed such a small threat offensively. Maybe some area attacks would help in future versions of the ogre?

After the ogre was down, the players went into the cave and found a small tunnel which the halfling crawled into and discovered a small chest filled with gold pieces, as well as a key wrapped inside a scroll. Although eager to discover what was written on the scroll, we decided that this would be a good time to call it a game and we wrapped things up, and the players got enough XP to hit level 2 (thanks to some benevolence on my behalf).

The players were happy enough with the session, especially on how smoothly combat went. The dwarf fighter was again a bit annoyed on his lack of options in combat. The cleric of Moradin thought Divine Favor was a bit boring when compared to his other spells, but he was very happy with Crusader's Strike, but he noted that he thought it was a bit of a misnomer. The rogue was very happy with every single ability he had, even though his Luck rerolls didn't amount to much. The wizard was a bit more creative this time around, but even though he accepted that sleep was a powerful spell it didn't really work the way it sounded it would work, as we advised him against casting it on the pack lord and the ogre. The cleric of Pelor was again happy with his laser tag gameplay, and the new player thought his makeshift archer fighter worked well.

I was happy with how easy things were to run, and whenever the party wanted to do something creative it's relatively easy to attribute it to one of their skills or just as an ability check. I'm still not happy with the monsters in the bestiary. The gnolls were fine, but the ogre was just dull as hell. I'd like to give him something to deal with a large number of smaller opponents, like a cleaving attack or a ground stomp or something.

I'm looking forward to see what new things level 2 has in store, and I'll be sure to post the results here. If there are any questions about my run, be sure to let me know!

 

[Ellington]

Well, we FINALLY managed to get together for another run, this time the players were level 2! The leveling process naturally took a very short time, and we got straight into the game.

The session began by the players reading the scroll they had found during the last run, which said something along the lines that the writer had dropped the chest into the well of a nearby town, and they should pick it up once things are safe. The party smelled adventure and rode back to town. They cashed in on their gnoll bounty and bought a sword for the stableboy who they'd taken a liking to. They bartered with his father to take him on as a squire, and sure enough it didn't take more than 20gp to get them to part ways. So much for family values. I decided to give the new squire the stats of a regular human commoner as described in the bestiary, and the players equipped him with studded leather, a short sword and a sling, none of which he was proficient in. He didn't lack in arrogance, though, which I guess is the main ingredient for a good hero.

They rode off to the next town, each of them trying to instill their own values onto the squire. The cleric of Moradin told him there was nothing better than the just life of a knight, the rogue told him to seek opportunities whenever they arise and the cleric of Pelor tried his best to speak to his conscience, with little avail. At evening, they reached the edge of a forest and decided that it was time to take a rest. They discovered that they didn't have any bedrolls or tents (d'oh!), so they made due with a campfire. They arranged some shifts, and while the first shift was uneventful, the cleric of Pelor and the human archer became aware of something approaching from the forest. They woke up the gang and prepared themselves as something came crashing through the branches.

Naturally, it was an owlbear. Such a classic monster. The two lurkers had hidden behind some rocks and got a few hits in, while the fighter and cleric of Moradin charged straight at the owlbear. The fighter was creative and used his surge ability to dodge AND make an attack, while the cleric stood behind him to be able to block some attacks with his shield. The owlbear only got one hit off on the dwarf, and the cleric of pelor and wizard bolted it with magic missiles and radiant lances. The fight went rather smoothly and the owlbear went down in about three rounds, with no thanks to the slinging squire. We were all rather impressed by how flexible the fighter surge ability was, being able to give an impressive boost to offense or defense in a pinch.

They grilled up the poor creature, finished their rest and headed off for the village. As they came there, they saw that the situation of the town was a bit grim. Orcs had been raiding it for the last weeks and the attacks had been growing bigger. They told the villagers that they'd help them out in the case of an attack, but of course they first had to attend the treasure mentioned in the scroll they found. They went up to the well, tied the rogue to a rope and let him descend into the well, hoping that he could dive down deep enough to find the chest. As he reached the water, the clocktower rang and the villagers readied themselves for battle. The party had a brief discussion on whether or not they should just tie the halfling and come back for him later, or heave him up. They decided that they'd need all the help they could get (and wouldn't want to listen to the rogue player whining for all the battle!), pulled him up and headed off to one of the town gates at the command of the village guard.

There, they came upon a miniscule version of the battle of Helm's Deep. There was a small wooden rampart and some barricades, as well as three villagers armed with short bows and spears. This particular gate wasn't expected to be heavily attacked, but it turns out that the orcs had a different plan. 12 orcs, lead by an orc warlord charged for the wall as the militia rained down arrows and magic on them, managing to take down a couple. The orcs that made it to the wall either charged for the gate to be met by the two dwarves and the casters, or tried to scale the walls which were guarded by the rogue, the archer and the squire.

The rogue absolutely LOVED the battle. Whenever an orc used its charge ability, the rogue could get off a sneak attack on that particular orc which is pretty much a death sentence when fired from a halfling sling. 1d8+2d6+3 damage isn't shabby at all, especially when you're doing it almost every round. It wasn't all good, however, as the heavy damage took its toll on the fighter. The cleric tried his best to heal him, but had to take his place on the front line eventually, but not before casting Shield of Faith on himself which turned him into a formidable tank. Possibly too good, if you ask me. When the attack on the gate grew thickest, the wizard sprung into action and threw in a burning hands, grilling three orcs, which turned the tide of the battle. They began focusing down the orc warlord which ordered the retreat, and as they were almost off the cleric of pelor used his ion cannon ability/searing ray and sniped him down from afar. Everyone cheered and the village rejoiced. Apart from that one villager that died. Poor guy.

We ended the session after the battle. I was happy with it for the most part. Every single character got a chance to shine, which is exactly how I like it. The fighter surge ability is what we were hoping for and boy did it deliver. An active ability like that allows for creativity on the fighter's behalf and he loved it. We'd definitely like more stuff like that, even something a bit weaker available on demand. Otherwise, the characters function as we'd like them to and everyone is content.

If there's any interest, I'll do a review of further runs but it won't be for a while as I'm going abroad. Any questions are welcome!

 

[pemerton]

Ellington, great reports!

There was a small wooden rampart and some barricades, as well as three villagers armed with short bows and spears. This particular gate wasn't expected to be heavily attacked, but it turns out that the orcs had a different plan. 12 orcs, lead by an orc warlord charged for the wall as the militia rained down arrows and magic on them, managing to take down a couple.

Did you resolve this using the action resolution mechanics, or via fiat?

Whenever an orc used its charge ability, the rogue could get off a sneak attack on that particular orc which is pretty much a death sentence when fired from a halfling sling.

That sounds a bit wonky in the orc design.

Both with these orcs, and the gnolls that get their advantage on attack, grant advantage to attacker from the pack lord, how did you feel that it worked? Is the granting of advantage too big a penalty relative to the benefit gained?