Playtesting Coup De Grace

[ren1999]

Many of the conditions that should lead to a Coup de Grace just grant a re-roll advantage. But that isn't good enough. But dropping the hit points to 0 is too much.

When the enemy renders a character helpless it is possible to kill that powerful character in 2 moves making players angry.

Let helpless victims take an automatic hit but roll normal damage. This gives allies at least a turn to jump in and protect them.

This also reduces the overpowering of many character powers.

 

[Tony Vargas]

CdG in 5e is kinda funny in a way. So many monsters have such low hps that 'merely' being reduced to zero could easily equate to less damage than a regular attack. Particularly if Sleep (with its 10-hp threshold) is indicative of powers that render targets helpless. Of course if there are no-threshold save-or-helpless spells to come, CdG will make them de-facto SoD.

It might be quite deadly to PCs, though, and would obviously be of great use to assassins sneaking up on naturally-helpless sleeping enemies and the like.

 

[Dausuul]

Many of the conditions that should lead to a Coup de Grace just grant a re-roll advantage. But that isn't good enough. But dropping the hit points to 0 is too much.

When the enemy renders a character helpless it is possible to kill that powerful character in 2 moves making players angry.

Let helpless victims take an automatic hit but roll normal damage. This gives allies at least a turn to jump in and protect them.

This also reduces the overpowering of many character powers.

Disagree. I'm tired of needing multiple rounds to slit the throat of an unconscious foe. D&DN is the first edition where I've liked the coup de grace rules.

Instead, I think Wizards should just keep in mind that the "paralyzed" and "unconscious" conditions are more or less equivalent to "dead," and should not be thrown around like minor debuffs.

 

[WSmith]

Instead, I think Wizards should just keep in mind that the "paralyzed" and "unconscious" conditions are more or less equivalent to "dead," and should not be thrown around like minor debuffs.

Yes, I agree. Plus don't forget that sleeping is the unconscious condition. In one of our playtest games, the ogre was asleep (unconscious) in his den. IIRC, he had a lot of HP. With a crappy WIS roll on his part to awaken and two excellent sneak rolls on the part of two halfling rogues, they were able to sneak up on the sleeping ogre undetected. One went for the CdG which brought it down to zero. Then subsequently the other rogue goes for the CdG which by my understanding of the rules in the condition entry, kills the ogre. They eliminated a dangerous foe without a combat. I keep thinking I did something wrong by allowing this but everything I checked in the rules seem to indicate that I handled this as written. A side effect of this is it enforces the fact that you should either sleep somewhere safe or post a watch.

 

[Piratecat]

Wsmith, that seems fantastic to me. Two rogues faced tough odds to do something dangerous they'll talk about for days? I like that.

 

[WSmith]

Wsmith, that seems fantastic to me. Two rogues faced tough odds to do something dangerous they'll talk about for days? I like that.

I do too. That is the kind of thing that makes D&D so great. They should have been detected and engaged with one overpowered foe. But, call it luck or the favor of the gods, they did what seemed impossible. Although from the metagame view, it was so simplistic and happened so fast that I though I as the DM missed out on something. I guess that is how modern RPGs have conditioned me.

 

[the Jester]

Disagree. I'm tired of needing multiple rounds to slit the throat of an unconscious foe.

This. A helpless foe- truly helpless, not just at a disadvantage- ought to be easily-slain.

Of course, goose, gander, etc.

 

[GreyICE]

Depending on the foe, I agree.

But this is exactly the sort of thing the DM should be arbitrating, so good news from my perspective.

 

[dammitbiscuit]

Of course, goose, gander, etc.

The CdG rules have changed... Boys, we dine on waterfowl tonight!

 

[Sadrik]

I am hot and cold on the rules for coupe de grace. I don't like that it should take two attacks to kill a paralyzed kobold and I also do not like that a sleeping dragon should go in 2 hits.

Perhaps as alluded to in a blog post, everyone should be able to sneak attack. The rogue just does it better. Sneak attack could occupy the coupe de grace design space. And I wholeheartedly agree.