Please help me with character ideas for WLD

[Justin]

I'm going to be joining a new group next Sunday after only playing 3.5 a couple of times over a year ago. They are currently running the World's Largest Dungeon. Here are the rules the DM gave me for character creation:

6th level (or 6ECL)
Any WotC published material is allowed.
Non-standard races/Prestige Classes are ok (with DM approval).
Point buy method for generating your character stats, 28 points.

I don't currently have any books other than PHB, but if I find a suggestion I really like I would buy the appropriate books.

My few ideas so far have been, in order of precedence:

Human Scout 6
Human Psychic Warrior 6
Human or Elan Psion (Shaper, Egoist or Kineticist) 6

The only thing I know about the other members of the party are they are a PC Wizard/Cleric (heading for Mystic Theurge), a PC Samurai and an NPC Cleric.

The DM suggested I bring two or three characters, given the nature of WLD. Apparently they had a near-TPK last week in the middle of the session, with only the Cleric left standing.

Thanks,
Justin

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If I may be so bold, may I suggest you start off with something tougher than usual. Yes, that +1 Feat and the bonus skill points that Humans get is pretty nifty, but there's other fun to be had.

For instance, you could build a warrior type (any fighting class) PC using a tougher- or stronger-than-usual race.

Savage Species, while not updated for 3.5, does list some nice humanoids and outsiders that fit the bill, and even has a long list of anthropomorphic animal humanoids (AAH) that do as well. AAH Races ranging from +4-5 ECL include Bears and Elephants with +8-12 Str, Cheetas with a base move of something like 40 or 50, and so forth. Yes, that means you'd be giving up some levels, but these guys are powerful in their own ways. Some are tougher than you might think, too. Personally, I like the Polar Bears, African Elephants, Warhorses, Wolves and Cheetas the most of the AAH races.

Fun can be had with Githzerai (that +6 dex is a lifesaver) & Half-Giants (big weapons HURT).

As for unusual classes & combos, I like Soulknives (especially Pyrokinetic ones), possibly mixed with Sorcerer or Ranger. However, with the party makup you listed, a Rogue/Psion (headed for Elocater) might be nice.

The Oriental Adventures Shaman is nice if you like spellslinging martial artists- you give up some armor, but you still get the spell progression and undead turning (eventually) of the core Cleric.

Kingdom of Kalamar has their own Shaman that is part Druid part Ranger, as well as the Spellsinger who is a Cha- based spontaneous arcane spellcaster with the Wizard's spell progression chart (useful if you're trying to qualify for PrCls with specific spell-level casting prerequisites).

 

[Justin]

Danny,

I had forgotten that I was considering a Xeph Soulknife 6 or Githzerai Soulknife 4 as well.

The Rogue/Psion/Elocator idea is intriguing, but what about Scout/Psion(Seer or Egoist)/Elocator?

How about Scout/Psychic Warrior/Slayer? (I happen to like nature-based characters, hence the predilection for Scouts.)

Any thoughts on those ideas, including suggestions for races?

Another thought I'd had before it was crushed by the Racial HD + LA = 8 was a Minotaur.

Justin

 

[Herobizkit]

Looks like your party is missing the quintessential Rogue. WLD is undoubtedly full of traps and unpassable doors... Rogues are the ultimate go-to men.

It would almost be worth split-classing between Rogue and PsiWar. PsiWar would get you your weapon feats so you could use more damaging melee weapons, while Rogue gets your your bucketload of skill points for things like Spot, Disable Device, Listen, Move Silently, Hide, and Use Magic Device. Any races that up Dex and Wisdom would be good.

Alternately, for some chewy Matrix-esque action, consider multi-classing a Monk with Psion (kineticist). You'll get to pick up Disable Device as a class skill, as well as some strong blasting-type powers. For race, half-giant is a must. It's almost worth taking the hit to Dexterity for increased Strength and Constitution, as well as being counted as size large for speical manoeuvres such as bull rush, grapple, and trip. (The 2 bonus power pionts and free stomp ability don't hurt, either).

 

[Justin]

A rogue would certainly be useful in the WLD. The hit from multiclassing Rog/PsyWar would be hefty, though. How about Rogue/Dungeon Delver? Seems appropriate to the venue.

One character I'd love to play, especially given the opportunity for epic levels, would be a Rogue/Shadowdancer/Void Incarnate. And then somehow get the VI the Ontic Flux SQ from Sep's Chthonic template for demons.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I feel your pain about Minotaurs. I LOVE playing them. If you want to play big & muscular, try a Half-Giant, Half-Ogre, or one of the AAH races. Among the AAH, the African Elephant (Size L, +12STR etc.) is probably the best choice, but if you don't want to play a large PC, consider the Brown or Polar Bears, which are size M and +8STR, etc.

The Bugbear (+1LA) is another relatively big, strong beastie (+4Str, +2Dex, +2Con) who, inexplicably, has ROGUE as their favored class. That could get you a NICE stat boost while not costing very much in the LA department!

There are also some nifty templates out there. Take a look at them- you might find something you like.

I'd still choose Soulknife over PsyWar for multiclassing with rogue or scout. The Soulknife loses the least by staying in lighter armor types. The downside, of course, is that the Soulknife cannot multiclass with Elocater by itself, one of the better PrCls to combine with the rogue/scout skillset.

That ticks me off, really, since the PsyWar is geared to being nearly a 1st line fighter, whereas the Soulknife is a nice lightly armored shock-troop... Throw PsyWar into the mix with scout or rogue and you'll be tempted to try to stand toe-to-toe with things you should be flanking or leaving to someone else to take down.

So, the Scout...cross between the Rogue and the Ranger...combining with a Psi class and possibly an Elocater in the long run? Choose an Egoist (Psychometabolism), Nomad (Psychoportation), or Savant (Psychokinesis)- any of those will be better with the skillset of the Scout, especially if you're on your way to combining it with the Elocater. And Inertial Armor should be one of your first powers!

Side note about Inertial Armor...as I recall, its a different bonus type from Mage Armor, so they can STACK! Nice AC bonuses for an unarmored PC. If it weren't for the obvious void in the party, you might consider a nice Half-Giant PsiWar/Sorcerer...

With their obscenely high +6 Dex bonuses (and a Wis bonus, as I recall) Githzerai would seem ideal here. High Dexterity means more to PC longevity (due to AC adjustments and Reflex saves) at low and medium levels than any other stat. The Cheetah AAH would also make a good choice.

A Scout/Shaman (KoK) gets you a LOT of nature based abilities. Combine with an AAH race, and you'll have something REALLY unusual and nature-y.

I'll restate my personal preference for Soulknife/Pyros...combined with Ranger, Rogue, or Scout and you'll have a PC who can travel lightly, and is nearly impossible to disarm.

Also, realize that merely by taking the Wild Talent Feat, your PC will have enough psi ability to qualify for levels in Pyroekinetic, so if you want to go with a non-psi set of base classes, you can add that feat and still add Pyro levels on top.

 

[Justin]

I don't have Savage Species so I can't evaluate any options from it. (Is it worth buying since it's 3.0?)

Where is half-ogre defined? Half-Giant could be interesting, and Gnoll was something else I'd considered.

Here's a summary of options I'm considering so far (in no particular order, including the ones I originally posted for completeness' sake), remembering that the characters will only be ECL 6 to start, so the multiclass and PrC options might need to wait a few levels:

Scout
Rogue/Shadowdancer
Rogue/Dungeon Delver
Psychic Warrior(/Slayer?)
Xeph or Githzerai Soulknife
Psion(shaper, egoist, or kineticist)
Scout/Psion(egoist, kineticist or nomad)/Elocater
(Ranger, Rogue or Scout)/Soulknife/Pyrokineticist (interesting combo, Danny)
Monk/Psion(kineticist)

Geez, with that list maybe I should start a poll!

You've given me some great ideas, folks! If anyone else has ideas, let's hear them, including races for the above list (again, ECL 6). But I should also try to start narrowing down to a top three since I only have a week left to build the characters and I'll have a few books to buy, XPH and CV from the looks of it. Should I also get the DMG and/or MM1?

Btw, I'll also need gear for these characters, so ideas there (up to the limit for 6th level character wealth) would be helpful as well.

Thanks!

Justin

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Savage Species is good, especially if you have a DM who favors an open style of game. Races and Templates galore! Even though its only 3Ed, I don't see that it needs much updating, so it probably won't be. AND, since it IS older, you may be able to find it on sale...especially in a used book store. However, if cash is short, I'd stick to the Core 3, plus the Complete _______ books.

Half-Ogres show up there, but I know for a fact that they are printed in another book as well.

Any combo with Scout, Rogue, Ranger, Soulknife and KoK Shaman (especially heading towards Elocater) should concentrate on light encumberance and mobility, as well as "bang for the buck." Examine the abilities and try to optimize your feats for whatever combo of weapons and abilities you have. Light weapons...short swords, kukri, scimitars, rapiers are excellent choices, and make excellent combos with a mindblade if you have one. A subtle choice is the spiked shield- with the right feats (Improved Shield Bash) and enchantments (Bashing), it can become an excellent off-hand weapon: Small Spiked Shield +1 AC bonus + Damage 3-11x2 base damage (+1 Weapon Enhancement +1d4 Spiked Shield Damage + 1d6 Bashing Enchantment)...and that's if you haven't added any weapon enchantments! If you seriously invest in TWF, and are willing to take the penalties, the Heavy Spiked Shield, properly enchanted, is a 3-13x2 weapon. That's an inexpensive and powerful off-hand magic weapon...

(BTW: Those shields would be 3-13x2 and 3-15x2 for a Large PC.)

I wouldn't use a Xeph- personal choices- but Githzerai, Half-Giant, and Dromite all posess interesting qualities.

Yes, Thri-Kreen do to, but, c'mon!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Side note- Spellfire Wielder is considered to be one of the more broken feats...its from Forgotten Realms, and is in another book...Magic of Faerun, I believe.

Some consider it...broken.

It allows a PC with the feat to absorb spell energy that he can later use to heal wounds OR dish out in bolts of pure magical force (to which there is no energy resistance, as I recall). If you devote yourself further to it by taking the PrCL, you increase the amount of spell energy you can absorb...

 

[Herobizkit]

re: Savage Species

I picked up Savage Species relatively cheap and I've found a wealth of information in it.

In short, if ever you've wanted to play any monster as a PC, there are rules in this book to support you.

There's also a wonderful article dedicated to describing scenarios as to why Evil characters in a party wouldn't just backstab one another.

I am currently in a game using gestalt rules where I am playing a Gnoll [Ranger/Rogue] and a Gobin [Fighter/Druid], partnered up with a Drow [Sorcerer/Favored Soul of Eilistraee] and a Duergar [Monk/Psion (kineticist)]. We're all of good or neutral alignment, and we were all sundered from our homes for one reason or another:

- The Duergar (Vog) was on the losing end of a house war between his family and the Drow; in disgust, he swore off his family name and became utterly self-sufficient. Upon reaching the surface, he happened across the Goblin (see below).
- The Drow (Laele Telenna) was abandoned on the surface world, left for dead after a surface raid. Left to fend for herself, she learned that there was a Drow goddess who wanted others like herself to live on the surface world.
- The Gnoll (Dargo) was an underdark hunter and slave of the same raid the Drow was in. The Gnoll showed a rare form of compassion for the abandoned Drow, believing that no one should get left behind. He skulked away and went to defend the Drow on the surface world.
- The Goblin (Zamduk) used to be the spiritual advisor to his goblin chief, but for some reason the chief decided that the orc god would give them a better chance of victory (the Orcs had achieved a great victory in a recent war in the campaign), and so he was ousted. The Drow and Gnoll met up with the Duergar and the Goblin as the goblin posse was squaring off to finish Zamduk.