Please rate Incantatrix

[Pielorinho]

I play in a game next to an Incantatrix. The player chose the class because of its abilities with abjuration and seeing intot he ethereal plane, not for munchkin purposes, and we've seen few to no problems with the class. Although it's got munchkin potential, it's also got decent flavor.

Daniel

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think it's a great class...

provided the DM takes some steps to balance it. A player who deliberately avoids boosting their stats into the stratosphere could probably take the prestige class without breaking it.

posted by LordAo
Does anyone have anything POSITIVE to say about the class? Any suggestions?

If you're interested only in power, in a really high-power setting, and your DM doesn't understand the meaning of the words "broke" and "balance" then sure, it's a great prestige class.

thing is, I will need to get the Education feat at 1st level cuz it needs knowldeg planes.

That feat has been breaking prestige classes from day one. On it's own, it's fine ... provided you treat prestige classes like the plague.

Kraedin
Improved Metamagic is gruesome.

Many people consider this broken at epic levels, and for good reason.

 

[sithramir]

ok

So you guys don't like the 1 less lvl on metamagic feats. This isn't until 13th level min anyways! Its overpowered so just remove that ability. I have a wiz/inc just cause it gives death immunity. I don't think thats too overpowerful. I dunno maybe it is but its the only reason I use the class. I don't abuse the metamagic stuff

 

[Grog]

Any PrC that gets an epic-level feat as a class ability (and one of the best epic-level feats at that) automatically sets off alarm bells for me.

Take out the improved metamagic ability and it's probably balanced. Of course, that was the best ability of the class, so you might want to bump the prereqs down a bit to compensate for the loss.

 

[gariig]

I suggest having improved metamagic reduce the spell cost once. So if you empower and maximize a Fireball it is 3(base)+2 empower +3 maximize-1(improved metamagic) for a total of 7..not bad but not scarey either.

Gariig

 

[ruleslawyer]

I hate to differ here, but I really don't see Imp Metamagic as broken. I agree with Psifon; it's the fox's cunning + Empower that are the problem.

As is, most metamagic feats are suboptimal to use. There are exceptions; all of these exceptions involve Empower or Persistent Spell and problematic applications of same.

Assume that you use the 3.5e fox's cunning. Now try to come up with a "broken" incantatrix combo. Well, you can do the following:

1) Empower a simulacrum. There I'd say it's the spell, not the feat.

2) Empower a fireball four times at 13th level. A 7th-level spell with a DC of (13 + ability modifier + Spell Focus feats) that does 30d6 damage, Reflex half. Compare with DBF (+4 save DC, can be delayed up to 5 rounds, 13d6 damage) or, better still, finger of death (+4 save DC, fail the save and you die). I think it's a fair trade.

Oh, and Grog: Lots of PrCs have class abilities that are superior to epic feats, even good ones. WWA as a partial action (Weapon Master), divine grace (witch hunter, any cleric PrC with a prestige domain, mystic wanderer, blackguard, etc.), type change, charge + full attack, frenzy, supreme cleave... the list goes on. I really don't see Imp Metamagic as particularly broken, especially since it and Instant Metamagic are the defining features of the PrC. What I don't like is the fact that the Incantatrix gives up too little and gets a host of abilities in return. That, and the flavor is weak. I'd rather a straight-up metamage that loses spellcaster progression at 5th and 10th levels (drain item is worth the loss of a level, IMHO) and drops the death/energy drain immunity.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I find Empower Spell to be too "loose". As long as it isn't re-written to apply only to direct-damage, people will forever abuse spells like Awaken with it.

As written, it hand-cuffs WotC designers. I wonder how many good spell ideas were shot down by Empower Spell abuse during playtesting.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I suggest having improved metamagic reduce the spell cost once. So if you empower and maximize a Fireball it is 3(base)+2 empower +3 maximize-1(improved metamagic) for a total of 7..not bad but not scarey either.

Gariig

ditto.

when I 1st read the class I assumed this, but then I posted a ? on the wizards board and found out the disturbing truth. Rule 0ing it back into sanity makes this a powerful but not disturbngly broken class.

 

[Grog]

I suggest having improved metamagic reduce the spell cost once. So if you empower and maximize a Fireball it is 3(base)+2 empower +3 maximize-1(improved metamagic) for a total of 7..not bad but not scarey either.

Hey, that's a good idea. Powerful, but not horribly broken. I like it.

(edit) Actually, thinking about this, it still might be too much. Being able to empower a spell for only a one level increase is no small thing. I'd probably still lean towards removing the improved metamagic altogether - the class still gets bonus metamagic feats, the instant metamagic ability, and immunity to death effects (no small thing for a wizard).

 

[Grog]

Oh, and Grog: Lots of PrCs have class abilities that are superior to epic feats, even good ones. WWA as a partial action (Weapon Master), divine grace (witch hunter, any cleric PrC with a prestige domain, mystic wanderer, blackguard, etc.), type change, charge + full attack, frenzy, supreme cleave... the list goes on. I really don't see Imp Metamagic as particularly broken, especially since it and Instant Metamagic are the defining features of the PrC. What I don't like is the fact that the Incantatrix gives up too little and gets a host of abilities in return. That, and the flavor is weak. I'd rather a straight-up metamage that loses spellcaster progression at 5th and 10th levels (drain item is worth the loss of a level, IMHO) and drops the death/energy drain immunity.

Well, if PrCs are consistently getting abilities that are better than epic abilities, that to me speaks of a balance problem. The Incantatrix is just one example of this. And the Improved Metamagic is broken, IMO - just look at your example of a 4x Empowered Fireball (30d6) vs. a Delayed Blast Fireball (13d6). The 4x Empowered Fireball is not just superior, it's vastly superior, even though the DBF has a +4 DC. After all, the 4x Empowered Fireball will do more damage even on a successful save.