Please rate Pin Shield

Rate the usefulness/must have of Pin Shield

  • 1 - You should never take this feat

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • 2- Not very useful

    Votes: 6 20.7%
  • 3- of limited use

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • 4- below average

    Votes: 8 27.6%
  • 5- Average

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • 6- above average

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • 7- above average and cool

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 8- good

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 9- Very good

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • 10- Everyone should take this feat

    Votes: 0 0.0%

smetzger

Explorer
Rate the usefulness/must have of Pin Shield.

Pin Shield [General]
REQ: Base Attack bonus +4, Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefir: This feat can only be used against an opponent who is using a shield and who is within on size category of you. Make an off-hand attack against the opponent’s shield using the normal rules for striking a weapon. If you succeed on the attack roll you momentarily pin your opponents shield with your off-hand weapon and you may make an attack of opportunity against your opponent with your primary weapon at your full attack bonus. Your foe gains no AC benefit from her shield for this attack. You cannot use this feat if you are fighting with only one weapon. Sword and Fist, pg 8.
 

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Below Average:

This feat is actually a reasonable feat for a two weapon fighter who is facing an opponent who uses a shield. It lets the character translate their primary off hand attack (striking a shield is an opposed attack roll so it won't succeed with a secondary attack off hand attack granted by Improved TWF) into a primary hand attack at against an armor class that is probably significantly lower (especially at high levels).

However, in most campaigns the majority of a character's foes will not be using shields. This immediately limits the usefulness of the feat as it will primarily be useful against some some fighters, most clerics, a few barbarians, and some monstrous humanoids. Against wizards, most barbarians (who generally use two handed weapons), monks, sorcerors, and druids (who will probably be wildshaped if they're involved in melee) as well as the large number of outsiders, dragons, beasts, animals, magical beasts, undead, and abberations, the feat will not be useful. In fact, the range of foes that it is useful against is far lower than improved trip, improved disarm, improved sunder, or other feats whose utility is limited by the number of foes they're useful against.

It is also limited in its utility. Even if you're facing a foe against whom this feat can be used, it still doesn't give you too much. Since attack bonusses usually scale more quickly than armor class, it will usually be harder to pin your opponent's shield than to hit your opponent.* Assuming you succceed, you then have to make an AoO (and hit) in order to gain any benefit. Even then, the primary benefit you gain is the ability to use your whole strength bonus and the enchantments on your primary weapon rather than half your strength bonus and your secondary weapon's enchantments. Even if you have a 24 strength and your primary weapon has +2 more enhancement than your secondary weapon, this will only amount to 5 extra points of damage. (And since the odds of not damaging your foe at all are probably higher when using pin shield than when not, this will be even less). In addition, having used your AoO on your opponent for this round, your opponent may now attempt risky manuevers that would ordinarily provoke AoOs (disarms, grapples, sunders, etc) without fear of reprecussions.

That's not to say that the feat is useless. A fighter or ranger who partners with a high level rogue or Order of the Bow Initiate who has the opportunist ability would gain tremendous milage out of this feat. (There aren't many feats which enable you to generate your own AoOs against opponents; most of the time your opponent can avoid them which he will if he figures out that your friends are opportunists. . . .) Similarly, it has high utility against defensively buffed combat clerics. Except in combination with the Opportunist ability, however, this feat does not compare to other ones like Expert Tactician, Close Quarters Fighting, Improved Critical, Shield Expert, Weapon Specialization, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Power Critical, Ride By Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Expertise, and Spirited Charge. Even a high level human fighter will usually have better things to do with his feats.

*This assumes that you're up against a fighter. If you're fighting a buffed cleric (who's not using Divine Power), their AC may actually compare favorably to their attack bonus. A 9th level cleric with full plate and a large shield can easily have an armor class of 30 (Magic Vestment on each and Shield of Faith for 4 points of deflection bonus). On the other hand, his attack bonus is probably only +9 or +10.
 

Interpretation of "... at your full attack bonus." clause.

I interpret this to mean that you don't get the standard penalties for two weapon fighting when making the AoO.
 

I would think so as well--however in order to get the AoO (which will probably hit) you first need to beat your opponent at an opposed attack roll (which you make at -2). The odds of succeeding at the opposed attack roll and hitting with the AoO will still often be lower than the odds of hitting with the off hand.

smetzger said:
Interpretation of "... at your full attack bonus." clause.

I interpret this to mean that you don't get the standard penalties for two weapon fighting when making the AoO.
 


I voted 4. It's to limited in use I think. It might be OK if you face enemies with shields on a regular basis, but if not, it's useless.
 

I gave it a Below Average. On seconds thoughts I think I was too generous; I was seduced by the stylishness of the feat.

As Elder-Basilisk points out, making an opposed roll at -2 and then making another attack roll at full bonus & no shield is often less likely to succeed than just making one roll.

Why would you do this? I can only think of only a few unlikely reasons:

(1) You really want to make an extra attack with the primary weapon because of some special ability of that weapon. Shield Pin converts a secondary weapon attack into a primary weapon attack, if successful.

(2) You want to gamble with a low value attack for a chance at a high value attack. Add in Power Attack for more fun. Ex: You have one secondary weapon attack left at -2 (or -7) and you must kill your opponent right now. Every extra bit of bonus to your attack (removing the shield) can be converted into damage.

(3) You are using a low value attack on a mook to try and get a high value attack (using Power Attack + Cleave) on someone else. [Classic AoO + Cleave loophole, again.] So I can use my last secondary attack, say, at -7 on a Rat to get a big attack on the Vampire: Shield Pin, then kill mook, then attack Boss with cleave bonus attack.

(4) Your opponent has a superb AC, but a lousy attack bonus. This is almost never going to happen with NPCs unless they are using Power Attack or Expertise excessively. Unfortunately, this is difficult to discern during the confusion of combat.

From a minmax POV, you have to be really tactically sharp to gain much advantage from Shield Pin. Most of us have enough on our hands just deciding how much to Power Attack.
 

Ridley's Cohort said:
Most of us have enough on our hands just deciding how much to Power Attack.

Ah, but that's easy. I usually "round the BAB down" to 5, 10, 15, 20, or something like this. It makes it easier to calculate the outcomes of the attacks :D
 

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