Please rate the Shadowdancer

[Celebrim]

Ki Ryn: For the rather obvious reason that debating the merits of the various game elements ends up revealing a difference between what many people think the rule says and what the rule actually says. Usually, at some point in the debate someone says 'Well, if that is what it says, then it the element is useless/broken/too weak/too powerful.', to which one has to reply 'Well, yes. But that is what the rule says.'

Admittedly, thereafter usually follows a discussion of whether or not and how the rule should be fixed, but I for one find the discussion educational.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Damn I'm sick of all these "rate such-and-such" threads. What does it have to do with rules?

I'll give you a tip...

Don't read them!

Each of those polls get at least two pages of posts... They may not be to your tastes but others do find them valuable.

Although I would like Merlion to stop using exactly the same titles than smetzger for his own polls.

 

[Merlion]

I'm not sure why but I thought the "please rate" thing was like the standard heading for a poll. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Li Shenron]

Although I would like Merlion to stop using exactly the same titles than smetzger for his own polls.

I agree. Merlion is new to the messageboard, and surely he didn't notice that Smetzger has been going on with his polls about Feats 1/week since a very long time (was it 1 year and a half already?), and now with his new Prestige Classes polls 2/week.

It's not that I think he shouldn't post his own polls, but to me it looks somehow a little disrespectful towards Smetzger, who has been slowly and regularly posting them, with a long patience and increasing our expectations with time . Just like having the habit of longing for next Monday evening to watch the new episode of your favourite series, and then one day a rival tv channel start showing every day a random collection of future episodes: it's difficult to resist, but if you don't you spoil one of the best part of it.

Please, I hope you don't take offense, Merlion, but as much as you are free to post your own polls, I will feel free to ignore them. It's definitely not against you, it's just I don't want to "betray" Smetzger after all this time .

 

[smetzger]

...
Smetzger, who has been slowly and regularly posting them, with a long patience and increasing our expectations with time . Just like having the habit of longing for next Monday evening to watch the new episode of your favourite series...
... I don't want to "betray" Smetzger after all this time .

I am not worthy.

I've got fanboys now

But, I digress. If people want to discuss methods of posting polls and the pluses and minuses of using particular headings I suggest using the Meta forum, 'cause thats what its for.

 

[Merlion]

I will be altering the headings of future polls. I say again, I thought "Please Rate" was a standard heading for a class-poll. I had no idea it was a trademark

 

[mikebr99]

In this case it seems very weird that the author has thought such a thing... what sense it makes at all? How could he explain why a SD has such an ability?

Maybe my english is not good enough, or maybe it's me who wanted to read it in that way from the start.

My language restrictions forbid me to disagree too much, but rather I would like to know if in your (and everybody else's) opinion it makes sense for the SD to hide in bright light just because there's shadow nearby (such as being in a totally flat desert at noon, drop a coin not further than 10ft away and hide becuase of its shadow!).

...I still think it was supposed to mean something like "blending" with a (large enough) shadow, and in fact it says without anything to actually hide behind, but doesn't mention dimensions.

Please let me know what you think!

The "Hide in Plain Sight" ability is Supernatural. They are using the available shadows within 10ft. to make themselves effectively invisible (assuming their Hide skill is successful)... magically. If there was an anti-magic area there, it wouldn't work.

HIPS is also a move equiv. action as it says it uses the normal hide skill mechanic.

Mike

 

[Li Shenron]

The "Hide in Plain Sight" ability is Supernatural. They are using the available shadows within 10ft. to make themselves effectively invisible (assuming their Hide skill is successful)... magically. If there was an anti-magic area there, it wouldn't work.

Yes, I agree it's "magical": in fact I had the image of a SD moving into a large shadow and somehow disappear from sight "even without actually having anything to hide behind". That always sounded supernatural to me (he's still in open space, but you can't see him because he blends with the shadow). Disappearing from sight under bright light would be even more supernatural, I just think it sounds a little ridiculous, is it really what Monte wanted when writing this class? Has anyone asked him?

HIPS is also a move equiv. action as it says it uses the normal hide skill mechanic.

Well, AFAIK you can hide also "outside" the move action, and that's what you often do, since when you're hiding "normally" you do that before the encounter happens.

 

[Li Shenron]

Asataram! Here's a SRD quote that seems to vaguely support my opinion, incredibly since everyone disagrees

Hide in Plain Sight: Shadowdancers can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as they are within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, shadowdancers can hide themselves from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. They cannot, however, hide in their own shadows. Hide in plain sight is a supernatural ability.

They cannot, however, hide in their own shadow!!!!

What the hell this sentence is written here for at all? If a SD does NOT hide within a shadow but nearby a shadow, why does it ever say they can't hide in their own shadow? At least it should have said " they cannot, however, hide within 10ft of their own shadow".

 

[Kraedin]

The biggest problem I have with the class is that it's best ability is granted at first level, instead of the more conventional 10th. I would really never take this PrC beyond the first level. (This also says to me that the PrC should be elminated and replaced with a feat using the same prerequisites.)

Li Shenron: Because if it said "they cannot, however, hide within 10' of their own shadow," they would never be able to use the ability. (You are always within 10' of your shadow.)

It just means that you need a shadow that is not cast by you to hide with.