Please stop paying full price for rulebooks.

[blackshirt5]

Nope sorry, can't afford it.

 

[Tiefling]

Not if the demand isn't strong enough at levels that are above the profitability mark.

True, but why wouldn't it be?

Eventually, the monetary rewards drop to the point that the quality has to suffer to keep providing the book.

Eventually after what? After the majority of FLGSs go out of business?

Considering that the market already has products (PDF) that have NO physical existence aside from a pattern of electrons, I don't think there's any room to move in that direction before people just stop making them.

My apologies, but I don't understand. Could you rephrase this?

This kind of boycott works when the market is really cheating people. It doesn't work when they're producing quality products at a reasonable price.

Oh, I don't support the boycott. I think that I get excellent value from the majority of RPG products that I buy. But I don't begrudge someone for trying to save money, even if they don't, strictly speaking, need to. I haven't been convinced by the people who do that doing so will cause the industry to collapse. None of the arguments could have been very profound because even now I've almost forgotten them.

Yep, the niche is back, but in the meantime half the gamers have stopped playing because the production chain is empty and there's nothing to buy.

And everyone suffers.

If that happened then it would happen for a relatively short time, and I can't see people leaving because there aren't new products. No one actually needs new products, they just make your game better if used properly. I haven't purchased an RPG product in half a year but that hasn't stopped me from playing. Why would it stop anyone else?

 

[Mark Chance]

Nope sorry, can't afford it.

What! Rant, rant, blather, insult, rant some more!

I know, I know. I should be ashamed. As soon as I get done typing this, I shall go spank myself

 

[Monster Manuel]

Is anyone else as disturbed as I am by that last post?

 

[Theuderic]

I geuss what is most disturbing to me is that it was by a Texan.

 

[Mark Chance]

I geuss what is most disturbing to me is that it was by a Texan.

Hey, now! Self-spanking is big here in Texas. Real big. Anyone who says any different is just out of touch.

Why, there was even legislation introduced in the state Senate just this last session that would permit self-spanking in specially-funded flagellatoriums.

I, for one, stood up and applauded the initiative, mainly because my butt hurts too much to sit.

Ha!

 

[Theuderic]

I can think of a certain Texan right now but I won't say more....

 

[Tiefling]

I'm going to respong to Ulrick's secondary posts now.

So what if companies go under because people refuse to pay full price for RPG books! Some will survive, some won't.

True, and it would be weighted toward the "won't" side, I think.

Those that survive will have developed a way to produce the product cheaper. Those that thrive will have it cheaper but at the same quality or even better.

That's an easy thing to say. It's less easy to do. How would you go about doing it?

The hobby would not die, only the companies that fail to adapt.

Sure, in the same way that if all life on Earth was blasted into space the only lifeforms that would die would be the ones that fail to adapt.

In the end, you, the gamer, would benefit.

I have my doubts, but if you can demonstrate a viable business model that would produce products of equal or greater quality at a lower price, I might change my mind.

At this point--It's too big.

What do you mean? Most of the products out there are of at least average quality. You don't have to buy the ones you don't like. And multiple books covering the same subject means that you can choose the one you like best. Besides, your suggestions would not merely cause businesses creating poor products to fold, it would cause a lot of good companies to fold. At least until you come up with that miracle model.

And besides, say for instance, it does die, according to the 1st argument gamers will still be getting hours and hours of enternment out of their books.

I suppose. But I like seeing new material covered, and I'm not going to risk that on the success of a business model that has yet to be created.

Now then:

Riiiiight.
The short of it is this: The speciality game store is the reason tabletop RPGs even still exist. Sad but true. If you support the massive discounters then you're just effectly putting one more nail into the coffin that is the tabletop gaming market. No gamer wants that!

You may be right that FLGSs alone allowed gaming to survive. But I see no reason why they alone will allow it to survive in the future.

Someone said earlier that D&D was almost dead 10 years ago. No, it *was* dead. TSR was gone and out of business. WotC bought the rights to TSR with money they made from their CCG, Magic: The Gathering, which only took off because of a grass roots campaign by speciality gaming stores and distributors like "Bob". Heck, I remember the call when my distributor called me up and said, "we just got this really cool game that you should try out!" Sure, I was a little skeptical but I still bought a starter and booster box. When I got those in and played it that was all she wrote!

I doubt that companies can adapt to Ulrick's miracle model, but I'm pretty sure they can adapt to new methods of communication with players. The intarweb is a glorious thing. Sure, not many gamers get their information from it now, but if FLGSs were displaced by web stores they would have to, right?

The biggest loss that would accompany the folding of FLGSs would be the inablility to flip through the book before purchasing it. But Amazon has preview pages for some books, right?

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

I really don't understand the complaint over RPG pricing. I mean compared to a lot of other hobbies RPGing is dirt cheap. I own every almost every book that WoTC has put out and that comes to a little over 600.00 (yup I added it up). Now over a span of three years that comes out to around 16.50 a month. Hell my cable and DSL are more expensive than that. And for the vast amount of enjoyment that I get out of gaming I would pay double the above figure and still consider myself to have gotten a hell of a deal.

And I know the point has been driven into the ground but the profit margin on books, especially niche market stuff like RPG is not going to get anyone rich. To lower the prices would almost guarantee a vast drop in quality or the death of the industry.

Not to be too harsh here but I don't think the hobby should have to change because some people can't afford it. We have all been in the position of not being able to afford the things we want but that does not mean that the price, a fair and reasonable price at that, should come down to meet our personal financial difficulties. I realy love Corvettes but I dont expect the chevy dealer to sell me one at half price simply beacause I cannot afford it.

Now bargain shoppers on the other hand, I salute you. Those that have the patience to scour the internet or the bargain bins to get a better deal, deserve just that.

Now you want to talk about expensive hobbies, the live steel sword fighting I do will run you around 2500.00 just to get started, and that's just for the armor.

Dirge

 

[Buttercup]

I think rulebooks are getting waaaay to expensive. There's a difference between inflation and price gouging.

Well, I can think of a number of books I've purchased in the last year that I would have paid more for. Kalamar Atlas, Book of the Righteous, Toolbox and the D20 Traveller handbook to name just a few were all underpriced, IMO. Had each of them cost 1.5 times as much as I paid for them, they still would have been bargains. I believe that quality work is worth the money.

Yes, there is a difference between inflation and price gouging, but it has nothing to do with the price of D20 books.



Edited to take out the points that others have made repeatedly and well. I should learn to read the whole thread before posting!