Plot immunity for PCs

[night_lord]

here's how i do it

I have struggled with this topic for some time now. As a player I absolutely hate this. The game gets boring VERY fast if I know that I can't die. On the other hand as a DM I have fudged a die roll in the players favour. I usually do this in the low levels. Once we get to the mid level I roll the dice in front of my group. My group are the kind that get attached to their characters. I realize my practise as a DM is what I hate as a player, but like I said my group gets attached to their characters. On the other hand roleplaying isn't about the DM making a story, it's about everybody making a story. Death is part of that story. A few sessions ago I fudged to avoid a tpk. Maybe I shouldn't have done that, maybe the story could have changed to a revenge style ("I must avenge my brother") or taken another form. I'm going to have my group read this thread and see what they want.

 

[Blood Jester]

As a player, I don't like to be invincible, I want to be a hero, and that means risks. But I feel there should always be at least one way out/way to succeed. If I'm clever enough, there should always be a way. If you set up a situation with no 'outs' then you might be railroading your players.

 

[Kichwas]

I'm of the opinion that if a TPK occurs in my game, then I failed to convey the risk/danger inherit in the challenge

On the other hand some players are so used to being coddled and hand held through risks that until their characters die a few times they just won't take any warnings seriously. They'll see it as an invitation rather than a warning.

So you can overwarn all you want, and still get a TPK.

Othertimes people will becomes commited, and not retreat when they should -when a battle starts to go bad.

If you get a few PCs in the negatives but not dead, that can cause others to stay against their better judgement in order to save their companions.

TPK's can happen as a result of a failure on the part of the players, or as a result of a failure on nobody's part. In a well played situation it can even go off without hard feelings.

Good players will realise that it is always a potential outcome of the game, and just move on.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

[Hijack alert]

KB:

For the sake of all that's holy! DON'T GET A PUG!!!

Sorry, by my sister has one, and...ugh! Get a real dog, I beg you.

[/Hijack alert]

You know, I just got a warning from PC about flaming, so you shouldn't be tempting me...

I've worked with a lot of dogs, big and little. Pugs don't know they're little dogs. they are active, entergetic and fun. Lilac plays fetch, and she's small enough we can do it in the kitchen when its raining. They tend to put on weight after a year, but I'm prepared to fight that. They also snort a lot. I can deal. Anyway, Lilac is way too cute. She's all black instead of the fawn coloring, and everywhere we go she gets this little fan club. I'm thinking we should be finding some way to market her...

Kahuna Burger

 

[Blood Jester]

You know, I just got a warning from PC about flaming, so you shouldn't be tempting me...

I've worked with a lot of dogs, big and little. Pugs don't know they're little dogs. they are active, entergetic and fun. Lilac plays fetch, and she's small enough we can do it in the kitchen when its raining. They tend to put on weight after a year, but I'm prepared to fight that. They also snort a lot. I can deal. Anyway, Lilac is way too cute. She's all black instead of the fawn coloring, and everywhere we go she gets this little fan club. I'm thinking we should be finding some way to market her...

Kahuna Burger

Yeah but, any dog that can literally get so excited that their eyes will pop out of the socket needs some re-engineering at the DNA level. (And that was a warning from the breeder!)

Her dog seems like an $800 guinea pig. It literally sounds like one, and it loves attention, but if you try to pet it, it's so spastic, all you get is a handful of eyeballs! Yikes! Then there's the snoring, it's louder than me! And the poor thing's face is so smooshed it, it can barely breathe. But boy does it have a big mouth, I keep waiting for it to swallow it's own head!

But if you love your dog, c'est la vie. (i.e. It's too late to save you... )

 

[mythago]

My group are the kind that get attached to their characters. I realize my practise as a DM is what I hate as a player, but like I said my group gets attached to their characters.

They should. Otherwise killing their characters is no big deal to them.

If you mean that they get so attached that they pout, quit the game or otherwise act like pains in the butt when they lose a character, then the problem is them, not you.

 

[Kichwas]

As a player I absolutely hate this. The game gets boring VERY fast if I know that I can't die.
...
I realize my practise as a DM is what I hate as a player, but like I said my group gets attached to their characters.

Ask yourself this:

Do you also get attached to your own characters, despite the fact that you may lose them when you a DM who matches the style you desire?

Is it the risk and feeling of accomplishment under a no-script immunity DM that helps you build that attachment?

If so, then perhaps you can flip this around and see that the same thing you desire as a player may very well improve things when given to your own players.

 

[hong]

On the other hand roleplaying isn't about the DM making a story, it's about everybody making a story. Death is part of that story.

Of course, "we played for 12 hours. Then I was slain by an elf" is also a story in that sense. The question is not whether something constitutes a story. The question is whether it's a story that people want to tell.

 

[d4]

I agree that to really "own" something you have to feel both the positive and negative impact of what's going on. If all you get are the good things to the fullest, while the bad things are buffed from you by some strange way the world is working around you, it's almost like you're PCs are being cradled by some all powerful DM Force.

i don't think anyone is claiming that in a plot immunity / low-lethality campaign PCs are immune to negative consequences.

there are much, much worse things you can do to a character besides just killing them.

On the other hand some players are so used to being coddled and hand held through risks that until their characters die a few times they just won't take any warnings seriously. They'll see it as an invitation rather than a warning.

on the one hand, i don't believe that my style of GMing is "coddling" or "hand-holding." on the other hand, yes, it takes a good player to be able to distinguish between the invitation and the warning. so far, i've had good players indeed. on the gripping hand, i'd rather the players mistake a warning for an invitation than an invitation for a warning. that can just mess up your whole adventure, if the PCs decide not to do anything because "it's too dangerous."

If you mean that they get so attached that they pout, quit the game or otherwise act like pains in the butt when they lose a character, then the problem is them, not you.

no, in that case, the DM is the problem. if the players enjoy a certain style of gaming and the DM doesn't provide that environment, then IMO he is failing them. it is important to hash this stuff out before the campaign begins, to head off any destructive differences in opinion later down the line.

Of course, "we played for 12 hours. Then I was slain by an elf" is also a story in that sense. The question is not whether something constitutes a story. The question is whether it's a story that people want to tell.

i agree with hong. it's not the kind of story i'm interested in.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Of course, "we played for 12 hours. Then I was slain by an elf" is also a story in that sense. The question is not whether something constitutes a story. The question is whether it's a story that people want to tell.

Another thing is that many people play D&D to play a game, not to write a story.

If you are just writing a story, what do you need the players for?

Geoff.