Plot immunity for PCs

[d4]

If you are just writing a story, what do you need the players for?

simple. it's their story. the players are the ones writing it.

 

[S'mon]

no, in that case, the DM is the problem. if the players enjoy a certain style of gaming and the DM doesn't provide that environment, then IMO he is failing them. it is important to hash this stuff out before the campaign begins, to head off any destructive differences in opinion later down the line.

I agree players should be aware of the DM's style. However in these days of Internet communications especially, IME it's pretty easy to get players. DMs are a lot harder to come by. The DM should run the kind of game he finds fun, enjoyable and satisfying, otherwise he's likely to get burnt out and there'll be no game.

 

[d4]

I agree players should be aware of the DM's style. However in these days of Internet communications especially, IME it's pretty easy to get players. DMs are a lot harder to come by. The DM should run the kind of game he finds fun, enjoyable and satisfying, otherwise he's likely to get burnt out and there'll be no game.

i wasn't suggesting the DM be forced to run a campaign in a style he doesn't enjoy, though i can see that might be construed from what i said.

similarly, one could take your comment to mean that players should just accept whatever style of campaign their DM runs, regardless of whether it's one they enjoy or not. again, i doubt this is your belief.

that's why i stressed talking about these kinds of things before the campaign even starts. if the players and the DM realize they have clashing styles before play even begins, the problem can be resolved much easier than if it comes up after a few weeks or months of playing.

 

[hong]

Another thing is that many people play D&D to play a game, not to write a story.

If you are just writing a story, what do you need the players for?

Geoff.

Like d4 said, in the end, it's the players' story. It's something that everyone should feel they've contributed to, both players and DM.

Besides which, my comment was really aimed more at whether (and how easily) PCs should be killable, not so much about freedom of choice in the broader sense. There are ways to have players' choices matter, even if their characters don't die all the time. For instance, if they wait six months to investigate a bloodmage den, bad things might happen in the meantime.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Besides which, my comment was really aimed more at whether (and how easily) PCs should be killable, not so much about freedom of choice in the broader sense. There are ways to have players' choices matter, even if their characters don't die all the time.

Its also possible to have player's choices not matter in the slightest, and have them die all the time. I've played in games where living or dying was the only place a player had any input and little then. Leathality and herding are completely seperate scales, though excessive* leathality may lead to the need to force the PCs into situations they would reasonably avoid. And both tend to be high in DMs who are module bound, IME.

*Excessive obviously being set at different levels for different players.

Kahuna burger

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Yeah but, any dog that can literally get so excited that their eyes will pop out of the socket needs some re-engineering at the DNA level. (And that was a warning from the breeder!)

I've heard those warnings myself, but never seen or heard from an individual who has seen such a thing (this includes two vets I've worked with. ) so I don't worry too much about it. They are more likely to get eye injuries because they don't have a nice pointy nose to take the brunt...

And anyway, at least they can give birth! You wanna talk about some selective breeding that needs to be rethought, look at the english bulldog. And overall, the pug's congenital worries are pretty mild. You'd likely think of dalmations as more of a "real dog", but due to overbreeding, they're a mess geneticly. (awaits flames)

Kahuna Burger

 

[hong]

Its also possible to have player's choices not matter in the slightest, and have them die all the time. I've played in games where living or dying was the only place a player had any input and little then. Leathality and herding are completely seperate scales, though excessive* leathality may lead to the need to force the PCs into situations they would reasonably avoid. And both tend to be high in DMs who are module bound, IME.

*Excessive obviously being set at different levels for different players.

Kahuna burger

Actually, I think I may have misunderstood Geoff's point. The problem isn't so much railroaded adventures (although this can certainly be annoying), it's DM arbitrariness in applying the rules. Having to rely on DM fiat for everything gets old very quickly.

This is particularly the case if you're a player who likes a good fight now and then, which I believe is a description that would apply to Geoff. It certainly applies to me.

The problem here is that if you go purely by the book, D&D tends to have lots of deaths at high levels. The solution I've come up with is to introduce metagame mechanics like hero points and rerolls. They take excess variability out of the game, which improves survivability significantly, and since the players are the ones who decide when to use their hero points and rerolls, the potential for DM meddling is minimised.

So far, it seems to be working out well, although we've only got up to 10th level or so.

 

[d4]

I've heard those warnings myself, but never seen or heard from an individual who has seen such a thing (this includes two vets I've worked with. ) so I don't worry too much about it. They are more likely to get eye injuries because they don't have a nice pointy nose to take the brunt...

my friend had a dog, it was a pug but a... pekingese? shih tzu? lahasa something'er-other? one of those. same kind of facial features. it popped an eye once due to overexcitement.

And anyway, at least they can give birth! You wanna talk about some selective breeding that needs to be rethought, look at the english bulldog. And overall, the pug's congenital worries are pretty mild. You'd likely think of dalmations as more of a "real dog", but due to overbreeding, they're a mess geneticly. (awaits flames)

that's why true red-blooded Americans get mongrels.

besides, why spend $800 on a pet when you can get one for free?

 

[the Jester]

There's no such thing as plot immunity imc.

In fact, "plot" is a very strong term to use in a game that's driven by player choice- my preference in style- and the consequences of the death of the apparently plot-immune pc are often as fun to play out as the originally intended 'plot' would have been.