D&D 5E Podcast on the current state of 5e

[Jester David]

They told us why. They've decided to no longer announce things until the previously announced thing comes out. They want every announcement to be a marketing event rather than dividing marketing attention between multiple projects. Given that context, I don't see how it's worrisome that they're doing what they said they would do.

But the policy of not announcing things until they were ready has been in place since 2011 or so, when they slowed down announcing products and stopped with the big GenCon reveals. It's not new. And yet they felt comfortable to repeatedly say the OGL was coming and even give a rough date.
And they want every product announcement to be a big marketing event. Small things like the OGL likely won't be any more than Dragon+ was a big deal, or the HTML version of the Basic Rules on the website.

You're just making excuses for WotC at this point.
I get defending them to some extent: WotC gets a lot of flack and criticism they don't deserve. I'll defend a lot of what they do. Like the conversion guide. They said they were in the works and gave no deadline but were still able to explain the delay with a reasonable excuse. I'll accept that and defend the delay. Because stuff like that happens. And I'm cool with cancelled products, even ones I desperately wanted, such as the planned stand-alone Ravenloft RPG for Oct 2011 that was cancelled and justified (albeit briefly). If something isn't working or the quality is not up to snuff I'd rather they cancel than release.
But this is not one of those times.
It's not something they're unready to announce. They did announce it. And gave a loose timeline of when and how. Now they've not only moved away from discussing when to not discussing it at all, meaning something has changed. And that's something they should discuss with the fans. That's something they need to explain. Really, it's a lot like when they cancelled the Adventurer's Handbook without a reason and just dismissed concerns with a "you can't cancel a product that wasn't announced."
It's insulting. It's insulting that they think the fanbase cannot handle the truth or being talked to like adults, that they have to keep this stuff a secret or we'll lose all faith. I get that they're part of a publicly traded company and there's some things they just cannot discuss. But other publicly traded companies are still able to discuss success and failures with their audience, as silence generates concern for the product line and the efficacy of the management. And the role D&D plays in the stock of Hasbro is pretty much non-existent. And there are ways of spinning things to make them not seem as bad.

People really want an OGL. It would solve a lot of fan complaints regarding the lack of content and take pressure off WotC. It would take some attention off Pathfinder as the small publishers move to support 5e. It would encourage new 3PP to emerge and focus on 5e and allow existing ones to reach a new audience. And it would help fans feel safe in posting their homebrew content and settings online without worry of a takedown notice.
But if WotC doesn't feel it's in their interests to release one, that's fine too. They don't owe us a licence. But tell us so we can stop waiting and publishers can stop sitting on books. Ignoring the issue isn't being to make it go away or make people stop asking. Heck, people still bring up the failure of the 3e Character Builder and the 4e Virtual Tabletop. And there were reasonable, understandable reasons for the failures of both. This could easily be the failure people remember 5e for over the next decade.

 

[Talmek]

I'm looking forward to more content for 5e but I'm not in a huge hurry for it as some seem to be. To be sure, everyone likes more options and hates radio silence from the creators, but I believe their explanation of why things are the way they are was acceptable as well (despite my own personal disagreement with their product release strategy).

I'd love to see an OGL, albeit one that is written somewhere in between 3.5 and 4e (Goldilocks theory - "just right"). This way 5e doesn't sag and eventually fall apart under it's own weight, but it doesn't die from a lack of support or recognition from the public at large, either (While I believe this is highly unlikely, there are some on this forum and others that believe the slow release schedule to be evidence of a failing brand, rather than a step change in business practice).

More content = more options...possibly good or bad. I personally prefer a slower release schedule with higher quality products over putting any idea in a binding and selling it. For me, WotC shouldn't feel obligated to continue to revisit the topic of "slow release schedule" any further now that it has been addressed...even if it displeases some of the fan base. Simply put, they should be putting more effort into creating quality products and an OGL that pleases the majority of folks...or just me...

 

[Mistwell]

But the policy of not announcing things until they were ready has been in place since 2011 or so

Not "until they are ready". New policy is "until the LAST announced product IS RELEASED". Totally different. They've never done this before - they always had a release schedule several products deep before.

Small things like the OGL

I feel like this statement is so far away from my perceptions that I am not sure it's worth while to converse about it. If that's what you think the OGL announcement will be like...OK.

They did announce it.

We just went through this. I asked if they promised, you admitted they didn't, you're contradicting yourself.

It's insulting.

Grow thicker skin, because this is not something anyone should take personal.

People really want an OGL

But it's so minor it's on par with Dragon+?

 

[Dire Bare]

You're just making excuses for WotC at this point.

Really?! Come on.

It's insulting.

No it isn't. Disappointing, perhaps. Insulting, no.

WotC clearly has been setback on their OGL plans. Deal with it. It's unfortunate for WotC and for the fans, but setbacks occur for every business, heck, even in our personal lives. It's nothing to get all worked up about. WotC has promised us NOTHING. They revealed tentative and vague plans, but learned the hard way that to release ANY information to the vitriolic D&D online fan community is taken way too seriously with overwrought and anguished cries of, "B-b-b-but you PROMISED!!!"

As a fan community, we are getting the level of communication we deserve. We are owed nothing.

And really, whatever WotC releases will come out when it comes out. If you just sit back, enjoy other aspects in your life, and don't stress out about what WotC is or isn't doing, eventually they will release new products, perhaps an OGL, and whatever is released might even be something to get excited about! But until then, why all the angst and worry?

 

[Jester David]

Grow thicker skin, because this is not something anyone should take personal.

It is personal. I've been slipping some 5e content onto my blog and would really like to know if I'm going to get hit with a cease + desist. I want to know if stuff I'm giving money to, like En5sider, will be shut down.
It's impossible not to take things personal with a hobby as near and dear to me as D&D. And when apps and sites and people get shut down because there isn't a policy in place it sure feels like a betrayal.

WotC clearly has been setback on their OGL plans. Deal with it. It's unfortunate for WotC and for the fans, but setbacks occur for every business, heck, even in our personal lives. It's nothing to get all worked up about. WotC has promised us NOTHING. They revealed tentative and vague plans, but learned the hard way that to release ANY information to the vitriolic D&D online fan community is taken way too seriously with overwrought and anguished cries of, "B-b-b-but you PROMISED!!!"

If you want to have a serious discussion about this, you can lose the condescending tone.
No, the didn't promise. Yeah, delays happen. But they *could* keep us informed and the explain why. A brief "this project/licence is still actively being worked on and is important to us."

And if that's their attitude we owe them nothing in return. No brand loyalty, no willingness to wait, no kindness, no respect, no need to buy their product over their many, many more open competitors.

WotC alienated the fanbase. The D&D is excellent and are all great people, but they're busy trying to fix the bridges burned in the last decade or so. A dismissive attitude to the fans doesn't win people over. It pisses them off. And pissed off fans go elsewhere.
I keep hearing talk from Mearl's and co. about improving communication, getting in touch with the fans, hiring new staff for community relations and the like. But so often it feels like we're being ignored.

 

[Dire Bare]

It is personal. I've been slipping some 5e content onto my blog and would really like to know if I'm going to get hit with a cease + desist. I want to know if stuff I'm giving money to, like En5sider, will be shut down.

WotC, to my knowledge, has never shut down fans posting their personal D&D stuff to blogs, forums, etc. (TSR did back in the day, of course) The only exception (again, to my knowledge), is fans who have created electronic gaming aids that went beyond "fair use" regarding WotC's IP. To worry seems premature.

Having your work professional published, through EN5sider or other venues is of course different than posting it as fan work on your blog. But the legality is Morrus' problem, the publisher, not yours. I can understand not wanting to spend the time creating work that won't get published, or if published, might get retracted, but if you trust your publisher to be aware of the legal issues, you should be good. I trust Morrus, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, seems aware of the legality issues, and has a good track record publishing material for D&D 5E, without getting C&Ds. And he isn't alone in publishing D&D 5E material without getting hit with C&Ds. And if Morrus does get a C&D in regards to your work, then it's not that bad, you just, well, Cease and Desist.

However, if you are uncomfortable posting your work without clear guidelines, as fan work or professionally published . . . then don't do it. I might love to create and professionally publish my own Star Trek roleplaying game, but knowing that without a license from Paramount I'd get shut down, I simply won't bother doing it. And I'm not upset with Paramount for not having some sort of open license. D&D of course has a history of including some sort of open license for the game, and it's become part of the "culture" around the game . . . but they do not owe us an OGL for 5E. Sure waiting sucks, but . . .

If you want to have a serious discussion about this, you can lose the condescending tone. No, the didn't promise. Yeah, delays happen. But they *could* keep us informed and the explain why. A brief "this project/licence is still actively being worked on and is important to us."

I didn't mean to be condescending, so I apologize that I came across that way (and worse yet, if I still am). But this is an attitude I have a hard time wrapping my brain around.

Sure, they certainly *could* give us more information, but they fact that they *haven't* isn't insulting or anything really. Would I prefer they be more open with their current progress and future plans? You bet! But I can hardly blame them for becoming progressively more close-mouthed over the years and it's certainly no skin off my back.

And if that's their attitude we owe them nothing in return. No brand loyalty, no willingness to wait, no kindness, no respect, no need to buy their product over their many, many more open competitors.

I would argue that you DO owe WotC kindness and respect, the same as you owe all of your fellow humans. WotC has not been unkind or disrespectful to you, why should you be in turn? Sure, WotC isn't a person, but it is an organization comprised of people who most certainly deserve a lot more respect and kindness than they get from our community.

But do you owe them your loyalty? Do you owe them purchases of their products? Of course not, who's arguing otherwise? I'm personally fairly loyal to WotC because they consistently make products that I enjoy. I love Magic, and I love D&D, and I have been very happy with most of what WotC has produced for those brands. I certainly haven't liked all of their products, and I certainly haven't agreed with all of their business decisions . . . but they have a GREAT track record with me, probably because I don't take their business decisions that I disagree with or that I am disappointed with as personal attacks.

WotC alienated the fanbase.

No, WotC did not alienate the fanbase. At least, not from my perspective. Certain elements of the fanbase have alienated themselves with unrealistic expectations and too much willingness to take offense at things that were not offenses. And the majority of the fanbase just chugs along, enjoying D&D without being fully drawn into the (mostly) online drama.

 

[Corpsetaker]

More content = more options...possibly good or bad. I personally prefer a slower release schedule with higher quality products over putting any idea in a binding and selling it. For me, WotC shouldn't feel obligated to continue to revisit the topic of "slow release schedule" any further now that it has been addressed...even if it displeases some of the fan base. Simply put, they should be putting more effort into creating quality products and an OGL that pleases the majority of folks...or just me...

Well it's not just some of the fanbase, it's a lot of the fanbase. The evidence can be seen across the various forums.

I get what you are saying about quality products and I agree that quality over quantity is good. The problem is the AP's. The stories aren't good and I don't run AP's anyway so while these books could be trimmed in gold, I still wouldn't buy them which in turn leaves nothing for me. Books like the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide for 3rd edition, or the old Wilderness Survival, or even the 2nd edition Tome of Magic are top quality books.

They keep feeding us these boring save the world types of AP's.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Well it's not just some of the fanbase, it's a lot of the fanbase. The evidence can be seen across the various forums.

But forum evidence is not evidence of the general fanbase. Just the forum fanbase. And of that fanbase, just those who are passionate about whatever topic they are posting about. It's a self-selecting sample of a subpar sample size. In other words, it's worthless for drawing conclusions from.

While purely anecdotal: most of the gamers I know (face to face and over the internet) are not at all concerned about the OGL or the speed of release. They haven't finished messing with what they have now. Some don't know know what the OGL is and when I explain it, they basically go "yeah, I only buy the stuff WotC publishes."

Personally, I couldn't care less if an OGL ever appears. But I also know that having one wouldn't hurt me either. I'm just not at all interested one way or another.

 

[Rhenny]

I applaud that WoTC is more concerned with quality than quantity.

Also Unearthed Arcana concept (limited play testing) is a terrific way to feel out the market and test out concepts.

I bet ogl delay is mostly because they do want 5e to develop slowly over time to keep from oversaturating the market. Ogl will "let the cat out of the bag" and maybe they see that as going against their long-term marketing plan. I bet they are judging feedback, and sales figures at this very moment to decide when (and what kind) of rights they will give to third parties. That's why it is taking so long to work out.

 

[Jester David]

No, WotC did not alienate the fanbase. At least, not from my perspective. Certain elements of the fanbase have alienated themselves with unrealistic expectations and too much willingness to take offense at things that were not offenses. And the majority of the fanbase just chugs along, enjoying D&D without being fully drawn into the (mostly) online drama.

As someone who did not enjoy 4e, I can say I felt alienated by the decision to end an edition I liked for one I did not. And choosing to change the game to attract a new audience while expecting the existing one to just following along without checking if that's what they wanted seems like the company's fault.
It may or may not have been a majority who felt abandoned, but was a pretty sizable minority.
And I hardly think my expectations were unrealistic, especially since they managed to blow them away with 5e.