Point buy

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Point Buy methods are straight from video games - no thanks!

You missed out on Baldur's Gate.

 

[Pbartender]

Actually, that does bring up an interesting side about point buy. Obviously, the higher the point buy the more paladins/monks/favored souls/etc you should see because the ability scores seem to lend toward voercoming MADD. Which is actually more of a sympton of our assumption of "good ability scores" and not a function of the classes. After all, if we assume a good score doesn't begin until 14, we're less likely to play a character suffering from MADD. But if we think of good as anything above 10 then suddenly MADD characters are much more feasible.

So perhaps as an add-on to this question is what constitutes a "good ability score" in your game? I would imagine that those of us who go for the 32 point-buy (or higher) system have a higher conception of a good ability score than those who are content playing under a 25 point-buy.

My players typically view anything that gives a bonus (12 or better) as a "good" score. Anything that can generate an 18 with racial modifers (typically 16 or better) is considered a great score.

That means, as a gaming group, we generally aim for low to mid 30s when using standard point buy. It's gives at least enough points to be great at one thing (an 18), and still have enough left over to be good at something else and average at the rest (15, 10, 10, 10, 10), or slightly above average at everything else (12, 12, 12, 10, 10).

The way we usually look at it is... After you give the character a 16 or an 18 (because 90% of gamers will do that with the character's requisite stats), what do you have left over point-wise, and what can you do with it?

 

[werk]

For all the dice rollers (which are a severe minority judging bythis thread) do you ever calculate out the stats to see what their point-buy would be?

I did it the LAST time I rolled for stats, I had one that was over 60, and one that was 18.

I'm not argung that rolled stats aren't playable, just that it's not really fair.

 

[Pbartender]

You missed out on Baldur's Gate.

Yup... Until Neverwinter Nights rolled around every D&D CRPG, and the majority of other fantasy CRPGs (like Might & Magic and Wizardry) used random rolling methods for character abilities.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I have heard from my players, on occasion, "My character's stats are much higher than theirs, and that doesn't seem fair."

Actually, same here.

And I have agreed every time: it doesn't seem fair. In fact, it's this kind of scenario that helped lead me to trying out various types of point buy and array systems. I (and *all* the players and GMs I know IRL) have come to prefer these methods for d20 fantasy and similar systems. This is because they consistently ensure fairness, don't detract from anything meaningful or worthwhile, and replace one kind of numbers-based fun with another. All in all, a wise decision (if I do say so myself!)

/tj

 

[Vanye]

I prefer dice

My preferred method is 4d6 best 3, with DM oversight. By this I mean I prefer to have players roll their stats where I can see them, so that if someone has stats that are so far out of whack with the rest of the players,. we can work on it.

For example, for the new campaign I'm running, I had one player have a 17, 3 16's, and 2 15's. Three of the other players had stats in the 14-16 range, with one score of 8 or 9. The last player had a 17, with nothing else above an 11.

I asked the first player to reroll a 16, and had the other player reroll his stats; the first player ended up rolling a 9, and the last player had stats that were like the rest of them, 14-16's with an 8.

Everyone ended up with similar stats, and the first player actually ended up with a better character, role-playing and backstory-wise, than he had originally conceived (in his opinion).

If we do use point buy, I prefer 32 point buy.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I think point buy is more based on games that had point-based character creation, e.g. Hero System and Gurps.

And this is any different how?

 

[Pbartender]

For all the dice rollers (which are a severe minority judging bythis thread) do you ever calculate out the stats to see what their point-buy would be?

I did it the LAST time I rolled for stats, I had one that was over 60, and one that was 18.

I'm not argung that rolled stats aren't playable, just that it's not really fair.

Yup... I've got a spread sheet around here somewhere that pumps out two dozen 4d6 drop the lowest six times ability sets at a time. It calculates the ability bonuses, ability totals for each set, ability point costs and ability point totals.

In the past, I've used it to quickly generate a couple dozen ability sets, print them out, cut them out, weed out the crummy ones (low bonus totals or point totals), and have the players draw out of a hat.

Sure... somtimes it's not fair. But a lot of people say point buy isn't fair either, since it charges so steeply for the high scores. Consider...

A 36 point point buy can make:
14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14 for a total bonus of +12.
But...
18, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12 only has a total bonus of +9.
And...
18, 16, 10, 10, 10, 10 only has a total bonus of +7.
And...
18, 18, 10, 10, 8, 8 has a total bonus of +6.

Is that really any more fair?

It all depends on how you define fair.

And though they certainly don't hurt, there's a lot more to making a useful character than just good ability scores.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I voted in the last category, but not why you think.

I do prefer dice to point buy, but only marginally, and I don't have any set level of point buy that makes me happier than any other. I think there's fun to be had at any stat level if you have good players and a good DM.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Is that really any more fair?

Short answer: yes.

+1 is not to +2 as +2 is to +3. And likewise throughout. IOW, it's a bell curve. The PB costs (to some extent) reflect that reality, without the randomness that accompanies rolling.