Pointers To Polymorph

[Lizard]

OK. So for the first time since 1e, I'm running a pure caster who's actually semi-decent level (9th). Because he's a replacement for my poor, dead, half-ogre paladin (snurfle), I am jumping in to him at a fairly advanced level. (Wizard 5/Blood Magus 4) Most spells are pretty basic, but he has Polymorph, and I'm led to believe the version in the PHB (3.5) has been erratad and changed to hell and gone.

Can someone point me to the latest, final, OFFICIAL, ruling on what Polymorph, the 4th level spell, can/cannot do? (The fact I can share it with my rat familiar offers so many tactical possibilities it's not funny...)

 

[Jhaelen]

Can someone point me to the latest, final, OFFICIAL, ruling on what Polymorph, the 4th level spell, can/cannot do? (The fact I can share it with my rat familiar offers so many tactical possibilities it's not funny...)

I think the latest OFFICIAL stance on the polymorph spell is that it no longer exists.

The last errata made sure that every reference to this spell was removed from the books, so now it only exists if your DM wants it to be in.

 

[Eldragon]

Yes, WotC pretty much took out Polymorph. Which I'm still pissed about.

The 3.5e PHB Polymorph is only broken if you DM does not know how to say "NO". Since you're DM did not ban the spell, just stick to a list of reasonable creatures and don't abuse the mechanic.

Personally, I make my players pre-stat their polymorphed characters before game time if they plan on using it in combat. Since for us, the biggest headache is not the crazy creature pulled from Monstrous Manual XXXVI, but the player is slow at determining his stats on the fly.

 

[Lizard]

Yes, WotC pretty much took out Polymorph. Which I'm still pissed about.

The 3.5e PHB Polymorph is only broken if you DM does not know how to say "NO". Since you're DM did not ban the spell, just stick to a list of reasonable creatures and don't abuse the mechanic.

Personally, I make my players pre-stat their polymorphed characters before game time if they plan on using it in combat. Since for us, the biggest headache is not the crazy creature pulled from Monstrous Manual XXXVI, but the player is slow at determining his stats on the fly.

What I'm mostly curious about is if the rules from the 'Polymorph subschool' in PHB II overwrite the rules in the 3.5 PHB, specifically WRT to extraordinary/supernatural abilities. I turned into a troll last game, and the 3.5 rules made it clear I didn't get regeneration, while the 'Polymorph subschool' rules imply I *did*, so I'd like to know for sure what I do and do not get before picking my 'form library'.

 

[Eldragon]

What I'm mostly curious about is if the rules from the 'Polymorph subschool' in PHB II overwrite the rules in the 3.5 PHB, specifically WRT to extraordinary/supernatural abilities. I turned into a troll last game, and the 3.5 rules made it clear I didn't get regeneration, while the 'Polymorph subschool' rules imply I *did*, so I'd like to know for sure what I do and do not get before picking my 'form library'.

I is my understanding that you use *almost* all of the PHB I rules for "Polymorph". The Polymorph subschool description has the line "Unless stated otherwise in the spell's description", so the only portions of the Polymorph subschool that apply to Polymorph are what the Polymorph spell do not contradict. Most notably:

# The target retains its own alignment
# The target retains its own hit points (So by Rules at Written, a new CON score gives you no extra HP)
# The target is treated has having its normal Hit Dice for purpose of adjudicating effects based on HD,
# The target retains the ability to understand the languages it understands in its normal form.
# The target loses all of the special abilities it has in its normal form, including its class features (even if the new form would normally be able to use these class features).

So you would not get regeneration as a troll, since Polymorph does not allow it. Our group wrote a Hybrid version of Polymorph that combines the two rules sources to make referencing easier (along with a house rule or two).

 

[Lizard]

# The target retains its own hit points (So by Rules at Written, a new CON score gives you no extra HP)

That one hurts.

So how to people pull off this "I'm a wizard and I can out-melee a fighter" nonsense when they're still about as durable as a porcelein figurine no matter how buff their monster form?

Oh well, I can still probably do a lot of damage as a hydra...9 attacks/round FTW!

EDIT: Loss of class features means no spellcasting, either, right?

 

[Folly]

To understand the new polymorph school spells you have to look at the magic section in the PHBII (and a few other books have it as well) that describe the school of spells. My opinion is that you give up more than you get. The polymorph change was poorly thought out and consequently has caused those spells to not be playable.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

That one hurts. So how to people pull off this "I'm a wizard and I can out-melee a fighter" nonsense when they're still about as durable as a porcelein figurine no matter how buff their monster form? Oh well, I can still probably do a lot of damage as a hydra...9 attacks/round FTW! EDIT: Loss of class features means no spellcasting, either, right?

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To understand the new polymorph school spells you have to look at the magic section in the PHBII (and a few other books have it as well) that describe the school of spells. My opinion is that you give up more than you get. The polymorph change was poorly thought out and consequently has caused those spells to not be playable.

The Polymorph school spells are unplayable. Just use the PHB version, as long as you pre-stat the forms you use there won't be any problems. While you're at it try to get the duration set back to 3e, cause the duration nerf of 3.5 made it useless outside of combat where it should be most useful.

 

[Eldragon]

That one hurts.

So how to people pull off this "I'm a wizard and I can out-melee a fighter" nonsense when they're still about as durable as a porcelein figurine no matter how buff their monster form?

Oh well, I can still probably do a lot of damage as a hydra...9 attacks/round FTW!

EDIT: Loss of class features means no spellcasting, either, right?

Yeah, no extra HP from a higher CON score bites. Which is one of the house rules our group came up with. We also established if you type did not change, you could still cast spells and use class features. No reason why a Wizard who polymorphs himself into an elf cant still cast spells, but strictly Rules As Written its not allowed.

 

[Nifft]

Never use pointers, polymorphism requires that references be passed because -- oh, nevermind.

Carry on, -- N