Poison evil?

[Macbrea]

Ah, The silly alignment debate again. Ok, we can go into the philosphical view on what is good and what is evil.


Nietzche tells us that in nature those things which are good are preditors that prey on the sick and weak. Those things which are bad are the weak, that are unable to care for themselves. In human society we gather in groups that are contridictory to normal nature. Those groups (society) are gatherings of the weak and sickly people that are said to be good. Those preditors that prey on those good people are termed to be evil.

Now, using that above statement can we say that poison in and of itself is good or evil? Not really. Now can we say that the use of poisons in inheritly evil. That comes to the view point of the society as a whole. A farmer that uses pesticided to kill vermin and small rodents isn't evil. Though an assassin that preys upon the weak leader by poisoning his wine could be termed as evil. The nature in which you use the poison determines wether it is good or evil. To use a poison to deaden the pain of a suffering person could be termed as a good act. The use of non-lethal poisons with the purpose of capturing the individual and taking them to justice could be termed as good.

Animals in nature that have poisons normally have them to either hunt or defend themselves. This makes them strong and therefor good. If the creature likes to torture its victim with its poison and play with it. It might actually be termed as evil. But you will notice there are very few evil animals in the books.

 

[Metallian]

Are all poisons evil to use? If a player wants to use a poison that drains str. so he does not have to fight, is that evil? Or is the use of all poisons evil and is it in a book?

I agree with the others here that, looking at the game mechanics, there's no real justification for all poison use being evil, or even necessarily unlawful (depends on where you are).

As far as I know, in real life, most poisons are fatal to most people. Even if they don't kill you, they might cause nasty forms of permanent damage. Plus, I think it is more difficult to posion someone in a fight in real life, so most poisons are used for murder.

Also, even some anasthetics or tranquilizers (causing Str or Dex damage or whatever) can cause dangerous, unexpected reactions, or a person might be allergic to them or whatever. This is presumably why the police don't chloroform rowdy suspects when making arrests.

In D&D, following the rules, none of these things are true. Most poisons cause nonfatal, nonpermanent damage. There's no table of cross-reactions, side-effects, or allergies to certain poisons/drugs. They are easy to use in combat, and so have legitimate non-murderous uses. They're more like stun guns or pepper spray than guns or knives. Heck, even stun guns or pepper spray could probably kill a person with a weak heart or an allergy!

This doesn't mean that D&D societies won't outlaw poison. Stun guns and pepper spray are illegal in some places. But if you outlaw poison in your D&D city, you should probably outlaw weapons, dangerous magic items, and dangerous spell use as well. As someone else pointed out, most of those things are WAY more dangerous than poison!

IMC, I've ruled that (in most civilized places) Ingested poison is illegal (hard to use it for any legitimate purpose), Contact poison is illegal (except when obviously used as a security measure, like a trap), Inhaled poison is illegal in large quantities, and Injury poison is mostly legal (just another weapon).

However...

CON damage poison and any poison that does permanent damage is always illegal...the thinking here is that you may poison the guy one round, then find out he is innocent, mistaken, manipulated, whatever...and then there is a chance that your poison might still kill or cripple him a minute later (secondary damage). It's too easy to make a mistake, or inflict lasting consequences after the person has "reformed."

I consider using those types of poisons to be evil under most circumstances. The rest are neither good nor evil...like any form of attack, they are simply tools that can be used for good or evil. I can't really think of a good reason why they would be considered "evil" in a world governed by the D&D rules. If they wanted to make poison evil, they should have designed the game to make it...well, evil in some way. As it stands, most are kind of humane.

The Metallian

 

[Hejdun]

The only thing set in stone in my campaign is that poison is widely regarded as dishonorable. That means in contests of honor (duels), the use of poison is strictly forbidden. Outside of that, poison is neutral. Some cities make poison illegal, others don't.

My belief is that poison is just another means to kill or weaken someone. Therefore, just like a sword or a fireball, it can be used for good or evil purposes.

Poison gas, on the other hand, walks the fine line on the "evil" catagory, simply because of how it works. For example, if the poison gas were used in a random encounter in the woods, that could very possibly be evil, as it could drift and kill off several innocent farmers, a herd of sheep, some cattle, the druids playing in the woods, etc.

Poison gas is not evil, exactly, but it is much easier to be evil with poison gas than it is with regular poison.

 

[Vaxalon]

Like most things, poison itself is not inherently good or evil, it's all in how it's used.

That being said, it's harder to use poison in such a way that it is NOT evil than would be true of, say, a crossbow or a wand.

1> In order to avoid carelessly endangering innocents, any poison you carry on your person should be labeled as such.

2> After putting poison on a weapon and using said weapon, it should be cleaned carefully.

Basically, as with any other weapon, a good user needs to be as careful as he can to avoid endangering innocents.

The same thing applies to alchemist's fire and acid; if a paladin were, for example, visiting an inn, he'd probably want to make sure that any noxious elixirs he was carrying were put someplace safe, such as a lockbox, so that any curious child who went poking in his belongings wouldn't be injured.

 

[Magic Rub]

Like most things, poison itself is not inherently good or evil, it's all in how it's used.

Yer quite correct... Hey hasn't this thread been done near to death?

 

[Magic Rub]

Yer quite correct... Hey hasn't this thread been done near to death?

Yes, yes it has here's the old one!

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14382