Poisoned Death Attack - Order of effects ?

[Solirion]

Let's assume an Assassin performs a Death Attack with a weapon coated in CON poison.

The question is in which order do the three effects, saving throw vs. poison, saving throw vs. Death Attack and the weapon damage occur ?
Since any CON damage will impact both the fortitude save as well as the hit points of the victim, the order does matter.

I did search the SRD but couldn't find any reference to effect order, so any insights would be much appreciated.

 

[Runestar]

Doesn't that seem kinda redundant unless your poison's fort save is higher than that of death attack? If your opponent is going to be failing his fort save against the con-damage poison, you might as well have him fail the fort save against said death attack instead. And if he dies, how much damage you deal won't matter. If you were using a greater wounding weapon however...

That said....

Death Attack

If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice).

I am not sure how significant or meaningful the word "additional" is supposed to be, but I take that to mean that the death attack applies after everything else from the successful sneak attack (ie: damage and poison).

 

[Solirion]

Doesn't that seem kinda redundant unless your poison's fort save is higher than that of death attack? If your opponent is going to be failing his fort save against the con-damage poison, you might as well have him fail the fort save against said death attack instead. And if he dies, how much damage you deal won't matter. If you were using a greater wounding weapon however...

Well, by the rules there are two separate saves for poison and death attack and someone (the GM supposedly) has to chose which save to roll first.

And you are right to note that a wounding weapon adds an additional impact to effect order.

The specific reason I'm asking is that the order of effects determines whether poison usage synergizes with death attack. Since these are two main class features of the Assassin Prc it seems to me they should but I couldn't find any direct rule which says so.

 

[frankthedm]

Much like a weapon that deals 1d6 fire and 1d6 electricity, I'd say the Death save happens simultaneously with the poison save and I'd definitely rule that way.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Let's assume an Assassin performs a Death Attack with a weapon coated in CON poison.

The question is in which order do the three effects, saving throw vs. poison, saving throw vs. Death Attack and the weapon damage occur ?
Since any CON damage will impact both the fortitude save as well as the hit points of the victim, the order does matter.

I did search the SRD but couldn't find any reference to effect order, so any insights would be much appreciated.

I'd say damage, death save, poison save. But that is just me.

 

[green slime]

Much like a weapon that deals 1d6 fire and 1d6 electricity, I'd say the Death save happens simultaneously with the poison save and I'd definitely rule that way.

Except that it has far greater implications than 1d6 fire & 1d6 electricity damage being applied.

Whichever you roll first, is going to have implictions if the character dies and is then subsequently raised. Calculating fire or electricity damage first does not.

I'd rule roll poison first, then death save.

 

[blargney the second]

I'd say damage, death save, poison save. But that is just me.

Barring a specific rule to the contrary, I'd adjudicate the same way if I were the DM. Ad hoc reasoning: poisons take time to act on the body, certainly longer than a stab to someplace vital.
-blarg

 

[irdeggman]

I believe that all effects from the same attack occur simultaneously. Just like multiple attacks (from high BAB) all occur at the same time (i.e., at teh attacker's turn in initiative order). It is one of those things that result from the abstractness of D&D combat system.

The exception is that if the weapon does no damge then secondary effects do not come into play either.


So roll all saves at the same time (or with the same modifiers).

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I'd say damage, death save, poison save. But that is just me.

I'd rule it like this, too, logicking from a pseudo-physiological perspective that:

1. Blade goes in = damage
2. Blade nicks spinal cord? = Death save
3. Poison spreads through the body = Poison save

Thus spake an ill-informed armchair forensic pathologist

 

[krupintupple]

an interesting tactic that. i could see how dinging a body for something horrid like 7 points of con could really aid in the delivery of the death attack. however, i'd probably rule 'sneak, death, poison' only because it seems how it'd happen in reality. also, i'm the DM of my game, and that's how my universe works...

...unless someone has some rules somewhere to change my opinion?