Poisoned Death Attack - Order of effects ?


Aid another in house! :)


They are basically one-shot ponies since they are fairly weak in melee.

Admittedly rogues aren't the toughest melee class ever, but assassins are certainly no worse than rogues. They're essentially rogues with benefits. (Spells, not nookie!)

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Back on the original topic, I usually look at these things from a "good for the goose, good for the gander" perspective. If the players desperately want to interpret something abusively, I remind them that the DM gets to use it the same way against them. I doubt many players would really want to take the poison's Con damage before the death save if the roles were reversed.
-blarg
 

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If you get hit with two weapons (as in the opponet is using two weapons or even multiple attacks) - the damage is resolved at the same time.

Bad example. you can resolve each attack, even simultaneous ones, in a set order, so that if you drop a foe with your right sword, the left can attack a still living target.

As for all the people saying poison takes time to work, not really in game. Maybe in reality, but no the game. And death attacks aren't necessarily immediate, in real life or in game. I remember a scene from some Jet Li movie where he finished off the villain with a death touch that slowly killed him while leaving him helpless and bleeding through the eyes and nose for a full minute. For an in game example, there's the Monk's class feature.

Since damage tends to come before special effects, and poison is both a form of damage and a special attack, I'd rule weapon damage, poison (initial), death attack, in that order. And as usual, no weapon damage means the other two never happen (well, assuming injury poison and not contact).

EDIT: For the record, I'd pretty much follow that method and make it standardized. If a druid found some way to get the Wounding property on her wolf companion's teeth, for example, I would say it happens in the order of: bite damage, con damage, trip attack. It wouldn't particularly matter in that case unless the con damage killed it before the trip, of course. It would if it was a dex or str poison instead of Wounding.
 
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Back on the original topic, I usually look at these things from a "good for the goose, good for the gander" perspective. If the players desperately want to interpret something abusively, I remind them that the DM gets to use it the same way against them. I doubt many players would really want to take the poison's Con damage before the death save if the roles were reversed.
-blarg

I am interpreting it from the POV of the npc who will be using it against the party, and I still don't see it as a potential issue.:)

Admittedly rogues aren't the toughest melee class ever, but assassins are certainly no worse than rogues. They're essentially rogues with benefits. (Spells, not nookie!)

I never said that rogue npcs were all that stellar in combat either.;)
 


It's one attack, for me all is simultaneous, the target roll his saves in the order he wishes but with his full constitution even if he rolled the poison save first and failed.
Once all is rolled you can tell the new situation, hp damage, dead, or poisoned with ability point lost, maybe all of them.
 

It's one attack, for me all is simultaneous, the target roll his saves in the order he wishes but with his full constitution even if he rolled the poison save first and failed.
Once all is rolled you can tell the new situation, hp damage, dead, or poisoned with ability point lost, maybe all of them.

Pretty much the way I play it.
 


As StreamOfTheSky already mentioned: No it isn't. Can you think of any other example?

Yes he was correct on that one since it is specifically spelled out in the rules that it doesn't work that way (ie., you don't apply them at the same time).

Instead of asking for other examples of when it is - why don't you supply some (game rules reference) that they aren't?

All actions are resolved on the characters turn in the initiative order (that is per the RAW) and the damage from a full attack action is specifically spelled out as being in done sequentially. Are there any other examples that are so specified?
 

Instead of asking for other examples of when it is - why don't you supply some (game rules reference) that they aren't?
Sorry, I refuse to get involved about hypothetical discussions about RAW. There are others who are better suited to do this.

I'm only interested in offering help on how to best deal with rule questions. If you don't have a question about a situation involving simultaneous actions that came up in your game, there's no need to spent time arguing.
 

Sorry, I refuse to get involved about hypothetical discussions about RAW. There are others who are better suited to do this.

I'm only interested in offering help on how to best deal with rule questions. If you don't have a question about a situation involving simultaneous actions that came up in your game, there's no need to spent time arguing.

Then why did you ask in the first place?

I am confused.
 

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