Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Puh. Yeah....Nightfall said:
Poisons in D&D
- Thread starter danant
- Start date
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Completely....I guess great minds do think alike!Nightfall said:Fru,
Again with the mind stealing! Get out of my head!!
*glad you agree though*
Kunimatyu
First Post
That Toxicant book looks to be right up my alley, as my players have a stated hatred for the "fail Fort, stat damage, repeat 1 minute later" formula. Does it contain rules for "poisons" (like gingko) that have positive effects(increased memory etc) combined with significant drawbacks(you bleed out really fast)?
If so, I think I've found a winner.
If so, I think I've found a winner.
danant said:One of my players wants to play as a specialist poisoner (under the disguise of luxury prostitute). We play from 1st levels.
And the question is - where can I find a comprehensive guide for D&D poisoners?
Prices, rules for creating, DCs etc. etc.
The situation is getting urgent - we'll be playing on Saturday.
Help anybody?
I actually recommend that you house rule a lot of poisons. In D&D, poisons all have the same onset time. In real life, they don't. Also, in D&D, if a save is made, nothing happens. It would be much more entertaining if an especially lethal poison still at least made the victim very nauseous on a successful save.
Li Shenron
Legend
interwyrm said:
Exactly. The rules make poisons too much alike, and they turn poisons into just another combat device.
It's not terrible, it's just that it could be so much better...
Think of what is scary (hence "entertaining") about poisons in movies/novels, or think about them in real life:
- you may get poisoned from apparently safe activities (eating/drinking, touching something, breathing...)
- the poison kills you gradually and SLOWLY (could be hours, days or even longer)
- to stop a poison you have to find the appropriate way (there is no universal cure for all poisons)
But poisons in D&D suffer from a seriously boring design choice: all of them give primary damage immediately and secondary damage 1 minute later.
This completely takes away a lot of possible fun: think Frodo slowly dying from the Mordor blade wound, and friends have to rush to find someone who can cure him before it's too late. In D&D, you either die from a poison within 1 minute, or you're safe (except that of course it makes you weaker so more likely to be killed in another battle).
The crazy thing is that normally poison is a tool for those who don't want to fight, because they're coward or because the know they cannot win a direct fight. This is exactly one of the reasons why the "poison is evil" idea is still mentioned in many D&D books. Because the poisoner (1) escapes a fair fight, (2) escapes punishment (poisons are used by spies exactly because it's much harder to find the killer, especially when the victim dies days later), and (3) the death is slow and painful.
No wonder why in D&D lots of people don't see a reason why poison should be evil, because by the rules it's just another type of damaging attack. It actually makes a combat shorter, so someone could even see it as a mercyful device
It's unbelievable to me that the designers made ALL poisons in the core books take effect within 1 minute...
I would suggest that a character (or npc) can make a heal check to determine what kind of poison has been used. You could either use the original save dc for the poison, or just make up one for a specific poison. The second option is probably better, as it is likely that a very deadly poison with a high save dc might be easier to identify.
Price for poisons should scale with
1. The deadliness of the effect
2. The save dc
3. The difficulty to diagnose the poison.
Having some poisons deal ability damage is fine. Others should cause conditions such as 'stunned', 'nauseated', 'sickened', 'dazed', 'unconscious', and death. Poisons should also have varying onset times, as well as different amounts of time until secondary effects occur. Some poisons should also continue after a secondary effect, for example, one that does 1 strength damage every hour for six hours.
Some other good ideas I've seen are poisons with multiple components. For example, one part is consumed, the other part is contact poison. The victim, and the rest of his table is fed a meal with the consumed part of the poison. The assassin applies the contact part to her lips, and spends the night with the target. The target dies. The assassin, however, has no problem with the contact poison touching her.
Price for poisons should scale with
1. The deadliness of the effect
2. The save dc
3. The difficulty to diagnose the poison.
Having some poisons deal ability damage is fine. Others should cause conditions such as 'stunned', 'nauseated', 'sickened', 'dazed', 'unconscious', and death. Poisons should also have varying onset times, as well as different amounts of time until secondary effects occur. Some poisons should also continue after a secondary effect, for example, one that does 1 strength damage every hour for six hours.
Some other good ideas I've seen are poisons with multiple components. For example, one part is consumed, the other part is contact poison. The victim, and the rest of his table is fed a meal with the consumed part of the poison. The assassin applies the contact part to her lips, and spends the night with the target. The target dies. The assassin, however, has no problem with the contact poison touching her.
Justin D. Jacobson
First Post
FWIW, Poisoncraft does indeed cover all of that and more. There are free-form poison creation rules that allow you to tailor a particular poison to suit your needs. You could easily create a poison that had a delayed effect or no primary damage, or tertiary damage 3 hours later, or whatever. Throw in metapoison feats, signature poisons, magical poisons, etc. and I think you'll find Poisoncraft will allow you to do anything you can dream up.
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