PoL & population density

[HeinorNY]

The designers forgot to put enough (or any) farm land around the town
Being a trade town, should farms necessarily be there?(Honest question)

The streets are laid out like a modern American suburban development, not the 5-10 foot narrow alleys of a medieval town.
It's not a european medieval town, it's a fantasy town.

The houses are spaced apart from each other, not built next to each other like in real medieval towns.
It's not supposed to be a real european medieval town, it's a fantasy town.

There's no mention of wandering pigs, dogs, cats, and desperate children.
There is also no mention of the colors of every building, the smells of some parts of the town, or every other detailed description. That's mostly the DM, although I think we will have some cool description to let the players get into the mood.

There's no random prostitute table (the worst sin!)
I'm sure I can make a better list than any WotC designer could.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

There's no random prostitute table (the worst sin!)
I'm sure I can make a better list than any WotC designer could.

Just as long as they don't name the girls.

 

[Clavis]

The designers forgot to put enough (or any) farm land around the town
Being a trade town, should farms necessarily be there?(Honest question)

Absolutely. The only reason why modern American towns are not surrounded by farmland is the existence of automobiles. All pre-modern towns and cities were surrounded by farms, for miles around. When it takes 8 farmers to feed one non-farmer (based on pre-modern agricultural yields), and it takes a whole day to travel 20 miles, there is absolutely no way you can have isolated towns without surrounding farmland.

 

[helium3]

The streets are laid out like a modern American suburban development, not the 5-10 foot narrow alleys of a medieval town.
It's not a european medieval town, it's a fantasy town.

The houses are spaced apart from each other, not built next to each other like in real medieval towns.
It's not supposed to be a real european medieval town, it's a fantasy town.

It's true that this sort of level of detail generally isn't required for most D&D games. Most players just don't care.

That being said, if I had a dime for every time I've heard someone on the boards complain about some setting detail not being "medieval European" enough, I'd have enough money to buy the entire set of 4E core books in June.

So, I find it ironic to read someone effectively arguing the converse on ENWorld.

For me, what's critical is that the setting details be consistent enough that my players don't find it hard to suspend their disbelief and immerse themselves in the role-playing experience. If I have really stupid players or they aren't going to spend much time interacting with the location, the relevant setting details can be sparse and not terribly consistent or even believable.

But the main location that the party is going to call their home base for levels one through ten? It better not have any gaping logical holes.

 

[HeinorNY]

For me, what's critical is that the setting details be consistent enough that my players don't find it hard to suspend their disbelief and immerse themselves in the role-playing experience. If I have really stupid players or they aren't going to spend much time interacting with the location, the relevant setting details can be sparse and not terribly consistent or even believable.

So if my players spend lots of time in an inconsistent town, and don't care about it, that makes them stupid?

 

[Irda Ranger]

The only reason why modern American towns are not surrounded by farmland is the existence of automobiles. All pre-modern towns and cities were surrounded by farms, for miles around. When it takes 8 farmers to feed one non-farmer (based on pre-modern agricultural yields), and it takes a whole day to travel 20 miles, there is absolutely no way you can have isolated towns without surrounding farmland.

Luckily all my Fantasy World Towns have a Decanter of Endless Water and a Picnic Basket of Endless Sausage Rolls and Tuna Sandwiches, so they can exist anywhere they want sans farmland. Rare spices and wines are brought in by Halfling traders on Giant Eagles and the septic system feeds into an underground cavern where Myconoids harvest the "brown gold" for food and profit. The streets are wide so that when the Dwarven Templars roll in on their Dire Warthog mounts everyone can give them a wide berth (but everyone also keeps a few truffles in their coinpurse to distract them "just in case") and every building in town is eight stories tall (minimum) because a crazed Half-orc prophet of Tymora promised the town three centuries of good fortune if they did so (1 down, 2 to go). There's no quarry anywhere nearby because a Wand of Wall of Stone is cheaper and can build a whole city block's worth of eight-story towers in an afternoon. There are no beasts of burden because they're messy (too much poop!) and all you need is a a few men a month volunteer for Polymorph Duty to become Stone or Hill Giants to do year's worth of field clearing or city-wall repair in a week. The town supports 2 soldiers for every citizen because, let's face it, without any farmers there's a real excess in the labor supply. They're all well equipped though because the town has an excess of forging power from ... a non-magical source, surprisingly. Instead the Decanter of Endless Water I mentioned is kept at the top of a high cistern that collects water 24 hours a day but releases it only 8 hours a day into a system of mills and waterwheels that automate the forging process (similar to medieval Europe, oddly). Recently a visiting Gnome mentioned that if you trapped a Fire Elemental in the cistern it would be even better, but this hasn't been tried yet. Naturally this all requires a lot of magic, but "Wizardry" is consistently on the "Top 5 Compensation Packages" list of careers, and attracts the best and the brightest of the town's students every year.

It doesn't look much like a medieval town, but have you read the PHB Spell List or the Dungeon Master's Guide lately?

 

[Irda Ranger]

For me, what's critical is that the setting details be consistent enough that my players don't find it hard to suspend their disbelief and immerse themselves in the role-playing experience. If I have really stupid players or they aren't going to spend much time interacting with the location, the relevant setting details can be sparse and not terribly consistent or even believable.

I don't have this problem. My players have had the urge to ask "How does this work?" savagely beaten out of them. None of them really want to know what the Myconoids do with the "brown gold", and long discourses on its many uses effectively discourages pesky questions of this nature.

 

[Ragnar69]

Hmm, if a commoner traveling from point A to point B has a 10% chance of getting hurt, robbed or killed, then it is plenty of darkness for me already. I have no problem with well-guarded merchant caravans making the trip safely 99,9% of the time.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I don't have this problem. My players have had the urge to ask "How does this work?" savagely beaten out of them. None of them really want to know what the Myconoids do with the "brown gold", and long discourses on its many uses effectively discourages pesky questions of this nature.

Yeah. I got tired of answering these questions a while back and don't really play with the 1 or 2 people I knew who liked to ask these sorts of questions. It was always annoying to have to stop in the middle of a story to explain how things work rather than getting on with the important part: the actual storyline at hand.

Like I'd be describing the scene: "The man in full plate on a light war horse rides into town, around 30 feet away from you, his armor gleaming...."
Player: "A LIGHT war horse? You realize it can't really hold a person weighing that much with full plate on."
Me: "Ok, fine, it's a heavy war horse...as I was saying, he rides into town."
Player: "He rode through all the farmers fields to get into town?"
Me: "No, there are no farmers around this town."
Player: "No farmers? You realized that a medieval society needs 8 farmers for every person?"
Me: "No, I did not know that. Nor do I care much, the point of what I'm trying to say is that the man who tried to kill you last week rides into town...what are you going to do about it?"

 

[Zurai]

Hmm, if a commoner traveling from point A to point B has a 10% chance of getting hurt, robbed or killed, then it is plenty of darkness for me already. I have no problem with well-guarded merchant caravans making the trip safely 99,9% of the time.

Exactly. A 10% chance of meeting something dangerous qualifies as "the woods are full of man-eating monsters!!!!!" to a level 1 commoner with all 10's for stats. Even if that something dangerous is a pair of runty goblins. By the time the commoner runs back to town, two goblins will become twenty, and by the time the tale's stopped being told, it was just a small scouting force for the invading army.