D&D 4E Poll: 4E god stats

[Simia Saturnalia]

Having been reading along with this thread, I'd like to further explain my position.

Stats are for avatars and aspects because the god sends those out to send a message, or whack some pesky mortal. The gods themselves can certainly be killed.

I just don't feel "jumped in the Astral and beaten to death" is appropriately mythic for a god-slaying. I want the god of fire dragged to the Ocean at the End of Creation and drowned.

 

[zen_hydra]

In 1992 WOTC published a book called The Primal Order. It was a toolkit for making and playing gods. I think that they should use something similar for the handling of 4E.

 

[CleverNickName]

(In all honesty, if I *were* on the 4e design team I can't even guarantee the cleric would survive my brutal purges!)

Ouch, man...that's harsh.

Actually, I played a houserule game where "clerics" were just D20 wizards who used the cleric spell list...there were no gods to speak of, so there were no domains or favored weapons to worry about. Sure, it wasn't as sexy as the D20 cleric with its granted powers and undead-turning, but it was still a fun and totally playable class.

So I guess it could be done effectively, but not many people would like it. Of course, in the world of D&D, the cleric class is probably the most sacred of cows. (rimshot) I prefer gods to have an active role in my games, and most of my campaigns have a very well-developed mythos and cosmology as well.

 

[delericho]

I think the best way to perhaps approach this is by making two seperate books.

Legends & Lore ~ All the Religion stuff, with perhaps some sample Aspects and Avatars.

Deities & Demigods ~ All the Immortal stuff, including the crazy-epic 30+ material.

While I agree that that would be the best solution, I really doubt the market would support two books on the core deities. Which brings us back to the question of whether to stat up the gods in the one book that is published, at the expense of other material.

 

[Ktulu]

Roleplaying a god does not require stats.

QFT


Religion is important in my game, not the god. Power comes from faith and belief, not from hanging out with Heironius and chatting about who won the packer's game. I tend to tread the gods as abstracts rather than olympian, in style.

Ktulu

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

In 1992 WOTC published a book called The Primal Order. It was a toolkit for making and playing gods. I think that they should use something similar for the handling of 4E.

People have been asking for this for years, but I've heard they no longer own the rights.

 

[Samnell]

I not only want the gods to have stats, I want them to have 4e's equivalent to CRs. I want to be able to slap divine ranks on something and use it as a monster if that's the way things go. Gods can die and be killed. The deities in my worlds are polytheistic mortals writ large, not ineffable mysteries.

That's where 3e's Deities & Demigods went wrong. It gave us stats, but no CR and no real attempt to make the divinity rules work.

 

[Lord Zack]

I think gods ought to have stats. Even if you decide you're players can't kill them it's nice to know what they can do.

 

[Jhaelen]

D&D Gods should have stats, for two reasons:

1) The idea of the divine as an abstract spirit is a relatively recent idea in human history. Early ideas assume both the existence of the Gods as personal beings and the physical existence of their bodies. For example, the Gods of Homer could engage in combat and be wounded. In Genesis, Yahweh Elohim had a voice, was able to walk in a garden, and looked like a person. In the belief of the Yoruba people of Africa, the Divine Powers have definite personalities, and need to be fed. Irish mythology (in the versions we have at least) assumes that the gods were physical beings with powerful magic. They could lose limbs, for instance.

Well, I'd agree if that was actually the way deities were portrayed in a setting. Typically they aren't though, so it shouldn't be the default for the new edition of D&D.

I can see how someone might want to treat deities as just another kind of unique monsters that happen to have a common set of abilities, effectively making 'deity' a role like 'mook' or 'mastermind'. But it's not what I'd prefer for D&D.

2) Gods were first given stats in D&D (in the "Gods, Demi-gods and Heroes" supplement) partly as a way of pointing out the absurdity of ultra-high level characters with tons of magic items. The stats of the Gods could serve as a sort of "stop-sign": if the PCs are as powerful as the examples of the Gods, the characters are TOO powerful.

With this, I disagree. It would be much more effective to provide a set of generic stats or guidelines to show what should be considered as a 'stop-sign'.

I think gods ought to have stats. Even if you decide you're players can't kill them it's nice to know what they can do.

You don't need stats for that. Deities can do whatever the DM wants them to.

 

[Lord Zack]

You don't need stats for that. Deities can do whatever the DM wants them to.

That's a cop-out. They should be able to do defined things.