D&D General Poll: How tough should 20th Level Fighters be? (MCU edition)

[Crimson Longinus]

Yeah, something like that.

 

[Rogerd1]

Yeah, something like that.

Not sure where we would put a 10th level Ranger, or Barbarian, or Monk for a comparison though.

Do we need another thread for each of these though?

 

[Cadence]

RE: 20th level Barf

Going outside the MCU to the comics, would Squirrel Girl be a 20th level bard? (Given the number of villains she's talked into surrender/used knowledge and creativity to beat).

 

[Stalker0]

So one thing we have to consider when thinking about powers, there are multiple ways to add power to a character in dnd, and therefore all of them should be on the table for describing some of these characters.

• Stats
• Level
• Magic Items
• Epic Boons

I think a minimum baseline for a 20th level fighter is being able to do many of the feats that spellcasters can do more regularly. Example: A 9th level wizard can lift 1000 lbs with telekinesis. It would be nice for a 20th level fighter to be able to do that with some regularity (maybe not at-will, but at least a few times a day).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Level 20 Fighter should at least be the sort of person who smashes Olympic records. They should be raising the bar of what we know people can do. A level 20 strongman type Fighter should be on the level Thor Bjornson as minimum. Bjornson is just a guy.

But this also speaks to one of the problems with how many people view things like lift and carry values, speed, climbing, jumping, etc.

When you consider them the ceiling, rather than “what you can do without special effort/exertion”, you severely limit characters, often putting them below the level of being competitive with high school athletes!

No one writes legends of a guy who can lift what a high school future strongman can lift. No sane person at that level of prowess thinks they can stand next to an Archdruid.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

A few minutes of jogging will kill an average character of exhaustion if you use the chase rules, so there's definitely some stuff just for game mechanics that makes no sense at all.

 

[Rogerd1]

Been reading Shadow of the Demon Lord which has an interesting progression on strength.

Strength	Normal	Success
16	1,000 lbs	2,000 lbs
17	2.000	4.000
18	4,000	8,000
19	8,000	16,000
20	16,000	32,000

 

[Flamestrike]

Dunno about Fighters, but 20th level Storm Herald Barbarians (Girdle of Frost giant strength, Hammer of Thunderbolts, +3 Half Plate) all be like:

 

[Flamestrike]

This is what I don't get why people say they want high level fighters or barbarian to be like Thor and Hulk.

But they are like Thor and Hulk. High level PCs are basically the Avengers. Flying or teleporting around everywhere, wielding potent artifacts, going toe to toe with literal Gods, Kaiju and Demon Lords (and winning) and dealing with threats to all of existence.

At 5th level, they're at Netflix Defenders levels of power. But at 17th+? They're literally fighting Gods and winning.

I mean a mid (11th) level Fighter, can easily take down a T-Rex, or half a dozen Grizzlies even without Magical gear (Caps Shield, Thors Hammer), and on his own. He can reliably fall from a skyscraper and walk away. He can load, aim and fire a Crossbow at such speed and accuracy he can reliably hit six bullseyes at 300' inside of 6 seconds, while moving 30' from where he started. That's already bordering on supernatural.

At high level he can go toe to toe with a Balrog, and win. Demon Lords have heard of his name and are wary of him.

The greatest warriors of Human history such as Musashi, Bruce Lee, Kosta Tszu, Mohammed Ali, Audie Murphy, Leonidas or Simo Häyhä (and even most Mythical Heroes such as Achilles) cant come close to those levels of power or emulating those feats.

 

[RuinousPowers]

I went with Captain marvel/Thor because I like how great Greek heroes could send Aries running away to lick his wounds, and I miss AD&D where you could go full Kratos if you were sufficient level.