D&D 5E Polymorph and Mental Ability Scores

[ElderElementalEye]

Hi all,

I need your advice on a ruling about the Polymorph spell.

It says in the description of the spell :

The target’s game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its alignment and personality.

So if you are a wizard and cast the spell to polymorph into a bird, to do some location scouting, it's kind of useless as written.
You effectively transfom into an Int 2 bird, and even though you can stay focused on the task at hand, I doubt you'll remember much when you get back to your normal form.
If you can remember that you were once human, or how the spell actually works beforehand

Do you have any advice on how to rule this problem ?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

My advice is not to be so strict about what a 2 intelligence means beyond where it directly calls out its effects upon the game rules (i.e. it makes any rolls that add your Intelligence modifier and any DCs determined by your Intelligence modifier lower - and that's it).

 

[delericho]

Do you have any advice on how to rule this problem ?

Ignore it. Use the changed stats only where game stats are actually relevant - if the polymorphed Wizard needs to make a skill check or save while in the new form.

You effectively transfom into an Int 2 bird, and even though you can stay focused on the task at hand, I doubt you'll remember much when you get back to your normal form.
If you can remember that you were once human, or how the spell actually works beforehand

Would you apply the same sort of constraints to a player who rolled a '3' for his character's Intelligence? Note that, as written, a player who did assign that '3' to Int could still take the Wizard class and have full access to spellcasting. (It would be a bad choice, but it's possible nonetheless.) Indeed, such a Wizard could eventually learn polymorph and shift into a creature that actually had a higher Int than his own!

I'd really suggest just applying the changed stats only where the game rules call for them to be applied, and handwave the rest.

 

[ElderElementalEye]

Would you apply the same sort of constraints to a player who rolled a '3' for his character's Intelligence?

Well, yes. But I'm cruel that way

Note that, as written, a player who did assign that '3' to Int could still take the Wizard class and have full access to spellcasting. (It would be a bad choice, but it's possible nonetheless.) Indeed, such a Wizard could eventually learn polymorph and shift into a creature that actually had a higher Int than his own!

That's the magic of pushing the rules to their limits

But you make a good point.

I was considering ruling the spell according to the old 1e/2e "Polymorph Self / Polymorph Other" difference :
- When casting the spell on yourself, you keep your mental ability scores, including to saves and skill checks. Effectively playing it as the Druid's Wild Shape ability.
- When casting on another, the spell does change the mental ability scores, but also the personality. So if you polymorph a troll into a sheep, it just goes around in a state of panic (as sheeps tend to do in the middle of combat), instead of trying to kill you with its hooves (as trolls are kind of obtuse creatures when fighting. They just don't know when to quit).

This would also helps with the cheese of polymorphing your allies into T. Rex. I just can't see anyone willing to be transformed into a beast to win a fight.

 

[ExploderWizard]

This would also helps with the cheese of polymorphing your allies into T. Rex. I just can't see anyone willing to be transformed into a beast to win a fight.

Yeah, especially well trained weapon users who suddenly find themselves with a pair of tiny useless arms.

 

[Li Shenron]

So if you are a wizard and cast the spell to polymorph into a bird, to do some location scouting, it's kind of useless as written.
You effectively transfom into an Int 2 bird, and even though you can stay focused on the task at hand, I doubt you'll remember much when you get back to your normal form.
If you can remember that you were once human, or how the spell actually works beforehand

Do you have any advice on how to rule this problem ?

I don't think memory should be an issue.

On the other hand, I've always been undecided whether this spell should allow the target to know who she really is, or if instead it should force the target to behave like a beast of the assumed form (i.e. "to think she is that animal"). It's just that I am not fully sure what "personality" means, if it's just a set of characteristics (e.g. "hot-tempered", "coward", "generous", "inquisitive"...) or if also means "conscience" and "sense of self".

To play it simple, you can (option #1) just let the target be herself, and only worry about the Int/Wis/Cha scores when you need them in a dice roll, but don't significantly change how the character thinks (a little bit like you may be allowed to do if you get Int/Wis/Cha damage, although this doesn't normally happen in 5e).

OTOH I often think that Polymorph works better as an offensive spell, as there is less room for abuse compared to using it as a buff. So an option #2 that could be at least interesting to try out, would be for the spell to really wipe out the target's mind for the duration, while retaining the sub-conscious (and so the alignment and the personality characteristics), and see how it works -> this would clearly discourage the buff use, but would make for some very interesting situations when the NPCs use it against the PCs!

 

[I'm A Banana]

The mental ability score is actually a significant limiting factor on the spell (compare True Polymorph). Getting rid of it is a pretty big power boost.

The thing is, polymorph isn't meant to be all that useful to cast on the party members - "mental ability scores of the creature" is up to DM interpretation, and I'd have no objections if the DM was like, "you can remember how to fly there, but walking is another story" or "Your T-rex ally thinks you look tasty." It's mostly a baleful polymorph / polymorph other. Using it to take over the scout's job or the fighter's job is iffy.

That said, going easy on a mage who casts it isn't the end of the world. It makes the spell potent, but one potent spell isn't always a gamebreaker. It opens up a few more options for 'em, might tread on the toes of some other class members, but isn't the biggest of deals.

But as a DM, I'd be inclined to use a lot of "yes, but" in my rulings on polymorph. Yes you can scout, but you have the mind of a bird and it's hard to remember magnetic patterns when you're back in human form. Yes, you can turn into a T-rex and fight, but don't be surprised if you flee combat or try to eat the party's horses. If you think it's worth the risk, go for it. Otherwise, the spell's primary use is for turning bad guys into harmless bunny rabbits and suchlike, and that's fine, too.

 

[Umbran]

Also, remember that a player may make a good argument. Don't polymorph into "a bird". That's generic, and has generic stats. Polymorph into "a parrot", and you can argue that the thing can have some language skills and in many ways the cognition levels of a human 5 year old, instead of the cognition of a finch.

 

[Mallus]

Here's a handy rule of thumb for parsing spell descriptions (or any rules text, really).

If your reading of the spell makes it useless, you are reading it wrong.

i.e., use the reduction of mental stats as a source of comic relief/characterization tool, don't remove most of the spell's utility. Parsing a spell into uselessness is waste of effort. If you don't like it, ban/remove it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

And if you read it in a too generously way you are also doing it wrong.