Polymorph self and CON loss

[Iku Rex]

Explain how Shillelagh works, then.

-Hyp.

The character's club or quarterstaff becomes a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls that deals 1d10 points of damage (+1 point for the enhancement bonus) when the character wields it. If the character does not wield it, it behaves as if unaffected by this spell.

What's your point?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The character's club or quarterstaff becomes a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls that deals 1d10 points of damage (+1 point for the enhancement bonus) when the character wields it. If the character does not wield it, it behaves as if unaffected by this spell.

What's your point?

Target: one touched non-magical oak club or quarterstaff.

If spells continually reevaluate their parameters throughout the duration, then as soon as Shillelagh comes into effect, the nonmagical oak club becomes a magical oak club, and therefore an invalid target of Shillelagh.

-Hyp.

 

[Iku Rex]

Target: one touched non-magical oak club or quarterstaff.

If spells continually reevaluate their parameters throughout the duration, then as soon as Shillelagh comes into effect, the nonmagical oak club becomes a magical oak club, and therefore an invalid target of Shillelagh.

This is a bad example. You don't need specific exceptions for the self evident.

And no one has claimed or implied that divine power (or shillelagh) is re-cast every round. Its effects are granted when the spell is cast, and remain for the spell's duration.

The question is if the effect in question here is a "+X enhancement bonus to Str" or an "enhancement bonus to Strength sufficient to raise the character's Strength score to 18 (if it is not already 18 or higher) ".

Yes, it's possible to interpret the spell so that it works as you describe. But it's not the only valid interpretation, as far as I can see. The rules assume some degree of independent thinking, and in this case the sensible ruling should be obvious. (?)

(I am willing to be convinced that yours is the correct, literal interpretation. Currently I don't belive that. But if that's the case it's nothing more than a quaint rules oddity.)

 

[cerberus2112]

CON changes, HP do not

I thought that any change to your Con from polymorph spells did not affect your hit point total. In fact, checking Tome & Blood, it says the subject retains its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, level and class, hit points (despite any changes to its Constitution), alignment, . . .
So, indeed you can polymorph to a hawk without dying!

 

[Aaron2]

Re: CON changes, HP do not

I thought that any change to your Con from polymorph spells did not affect your hit point total. In fact, checking Tome & Blood, it says the subject retains its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, level and class, hit points (despite any changes to its Constitution), alignment, . . .
So, indeed you can polymorph to a hawk without dying!

Hmmm. You'll have hit points but no Con. I think you'll explode in a paradoxical blast.


As an aside, if one of you arms gets cut off and you polymorph, does the new form two arm or not?


Aaron

 

[AuraSeer]

Re: CON changes, HP do not

I thought that any change to your Con from polymorph spells did not affect your hit point total.

Correct but irrelevant. If your Con ever reaches 0, you die, even if you had hit points left.

 

[Camarath]

Target: one touched non-magical oak club or quarterstaff.

-Hyp.

Hypersmurf the target description defines the characteristics of the traget before it is affected by the spell. If the spell could negate its self after casting Slay Living would be save vs nothing since the traget would either live or become an invalid traget. So the target applies at the time of casting only.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hypersmurf the target description defines the characteristics of the traget before it is affected by the spell. If the spell could negate its self after casting Slay Living would be save vs nothing since the traget would either live or become an invalid traget. So the target applies at the time of casting only.

That's right.

So why should the enhancement bonus of Divine Power behave differently? At time of casting, the enhancement bonus sufficient to raise the bat's Strength to 18 is +17.

If someone casts Enlarge on the bat and gives it a +2 Enlargement bonus, which stacks with an Enhancement bonus, its Strength should go up to 20. But others are suggesting that the Enhancement bonus says "Oops - Strength isn't 18 any more. Better throttle back a little..."

-Hyp.

 

[Camarath]

That's right.

So why should the enhancement bonus of Divine Power behave differently? At time of casting, the enhancement bonus sufficient to raise the bat's Strength to 18 is +17.

If someone casts Enlarge on the bat and gives it a +2 Enlargement bonus, which stacks with an Enhancement bonus, its Strength should go up to 20. But others are suggesting that the Enhancement bonus says "Oops - Strength isn't 18 any more. Better throttle back a little..."

-Hyp.

I see no problem with using Divine Power in that way unless you use persistent spell on it. Then one could contrive to have an 18 Enhancement bonus to str for the entire 24 hour duration. The normal 1 round/lv duration (2 round/lv with extend) means that the bonus lasts only one encounter, so extraordinary means of raising the bonus are not that effective or worth wile.

On the other hand, the target of Divine Power is personal not personal if strength is less that 18, you could cast the spell if your str was less that 18 but would gain no str enhancement. Because the bonus comes from the spell's effect the DM (or the caster if the spell provides for control) can decide how the bonus acts over time and in various situations. The target, area and duration of a spell are set at the time of catsing but the spell effects can change during the spells duration. Thus an effect of a spell can be changed as circumstances change without the spell needing to be recast or reapplied.

I realy do not care one way or an other about the way Divine Power gets played as long as it is not abused.

edit: for grammar error

 

[Saeviomagy]

On the other hand, the target of Divine Power is personal not personal if strength is less that 18, you could cast the spell if your str was less that 18 but would gain no str enhancement. Because the bonus comes from the spell's effect the DM (or the caster if the spell provides for control) can decide how the bonus acts over time and in various situations. The target, area and duration of a spell are set at the time of catsing but the spell effects can change during the spells duration. Thus an effect of a spell can be changed as circumstances change without the spell needing to be recast or reapplied.

No. The spell effects follow the rules, or you're not playing D&D any more. The question is "what are the rules".

Apart from not really getting anywhere, this bickering about spell effects isn't helping when it comes to the original question - ability drain and damage aren't spells or necessarily spell effects.