Polymorph: Vermin Traits

[DwarvenDog]

One of my PC's polymorphs into a monstrous spider. Presumably this grants him Vermin Traits, such as darkvision.

There's another trait, as follows:

—Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).


He wants to know if he gets immunity to mind-affecting effects. I would say yes but it could be argued that this particular trait is tied to its "no intelligence" and since polymorph does not change intelligence this trait can't happen.

Any thoughts?

 

[notholo]

The new errata and examples given for the Polymorph subschool spells suggest that your player does not acquire mindlessness immunities because he retains his intelligence. It seems that the new rules for Alter Self, alternate form, and Polymorph still requires a lot of DM rulings case by case.

David

 

[Iku Rex]

Rules of the Game says you don't get the immunity.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a

Vermin Type

You get the following:

-- Proficient with their natural weapons only. (You don't forget what you know, but a change to vermin form doesn't get you any weapon proficiency that's not listed here.)

-- Proficient with no armor. (You don't forget what you know, but a change to vermin form doesn't get you any armor proficiency that's not listed here.)

-- Vermin breathe, eat, and sleep.

You don't get the following:

-- Mindless: No Intelligence score and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). (You usually keep your Intelligence score when changing forms; the baleful polymorph spell can be an exception.)

-- Darkvision out to 60 feet. (A natural ability.)

The same article says you get it with plants though.

 

[Iku Rex]

The new errata and examples given for the Polymorph subschool spells suggest that your player does not acquire mindlessness immunities because he retains his intelligence.

They do? Where?

 

[notholo]

The very fine article series on Polymorph by Skip is from 2004. The new Polymorph revision is printed in Players Handbook II, by David Noonan, published in 2006, pages 95-6.

My criticism with all of these revisions is that these traits are not explicitly stated.

Because the vermin's mindless traits are linked in the text with 0 intelligence, it is reasonable to assume the retained intelligence of Polymorph supercedes the part of the description that regards the acquisition of special qualities.

Plant creatures are generally intelligent, so it is assumed that their immunity to mind-affecting spells is due to the very alien nature of their organs of mentation.

 

[frankthedm]

If he want to be mindless require him to hand over his character sheet for the duration of the spell.

 

[DwarvenDog]

I'd forgotten about those RoTG articles. Thanks for the reminder!