Polymorph

[IcyCool]

Well, the target also is a human, who happens to be polymorphed into an imp, not an imp.

Bye
Thanee

Except that the target is not a humanoid (human). The target is an outsider (augmented humanoid, human).

 

[Thanee]

Only as long as the first PaO applies.

Bye
Thanee

 

[IcyCool]

Only as long as the first PaO applies.

Bye
Thanee

Does the second PoA have its duration change after the first wears off?

On a slightly related note, does the spell "Shillelagh" (target, one non-magical club or quarterstaff) continue to function once the club or quarterstaff becomes magic?

 

[noeuphoria]

Doesn't that take us back into the territory for Shillegah? Does the spell continually check it's target's original type? Because I don 't think that polymorphing someone into a giant would get rid of a domination effect on them, but that's the same logic. Humanoid... spell checks target, it's ok. Giant.... spell checks target, not legal, fizzles.

 

[Jack Simth]

Only as long as the first PaO applies.

Bye
Thanee

... so the trick is to find a path by which each stage of PaO is permanent that gets you where you want to go, then?

Hmm.... are Outsiders an extra kingdom? Not answered in RAW, is it? If they qualify as the Animal Kingdom, it shouldn't be too hard; simply need another +4 beyond the same kingdom - size and Int, perhaps:

Human (Animal, Mammal, Living, Humanoid, Medium) -> Astral Deva (Animal +5, Medium +2, Same or lower Int (assuming casting it on an 18 Int wizard....) +2) Permanent.

If not, then you need a different way to turn the target into an outsider before PaO (only four +2 duration factors - no way to get around needing the same Kingdom).

On the other hand, if you aren't insistant on PaO into an outsider, you can get some nifty boosts with fun chains; perhaps something in a nice shade of Dragon for your Int-6 Barbarian:
Let's see....
Human (Int 6) -> Orgre (Kingdom+5, Class+2, Smae Int +2) (Int 6) -> Ogre Mage (Kingdom +5, Class +2, Same Size +2) (Int 14) -> Juvinile Red Dragon (Kingdom +5, Same Size +2, Same Int +2) (Int 14)

Also makes him a little bit brighter.

 

[Saeviomagy]

... so the trick is to find a path by which each stage of PaO is permanent that gets you where you want to go, then?

I believe the point was that when you cast the second PaO, that because the second spell will make the first irrelevant, the first step is to remove the first spell. At which point you're just casting PaO on a human again.

 

[Diirk]

I believe the point was that when you cast the second PaO, that because the second spell will make the first irrelevant, the first step is to remove the first spell. At which point you're just casting PaO on a human again.

But you don't remove the first spell... its still there, even if it is no longer relevant. If the 2nd happens to get dispelled, you'd revert to the shape of the first, not a human.

 

[Thanee]

Yes, but I would still base the change on the human, not on the outsider-form, because the first spell does not apply, when the second one does. They don't stack! What you do, is basically stacking the effects.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ballard_Alvar]

Yes, but I would still base the change on the human, not on the outsider-form, because the first spell does not apply, when the second one does. They don't stack! What you do, is basically stacking the effects.

Bye
Thanee

my inclination is that it works to us a polymorph spell to change your type to another and use a second Polymorph Any Object to make a change permenant. My reasoning is that it is not a stacking issue or a replacement issue, -again this goes back to my form alltering effect argument that i used refering to WS on my thread; but the second overrides the first due to the wording.
Polymorph says "The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form." This is specifically in there to indicate valid targets for spells.(which is the only reason to have type/subtype in the first place) So the Human changes into a Bariar, then casts PaO and makes it permenant. keep in mind spells with a duration of permenant can be dispelled. . . . So yeah, I don't see anything wrong with it. It may be broken, but it is an 8th level spell. you could house rule it to be a different kind of effect if that doesn't work for your group. In some worlds polymorph doesn't exist at all.-kind of makes the druids less effective though.

 

[Rkhet]

Seconded. It should work, by RAW. It is also quite broken, but so are a lot of other things.