Wait, are you actually complaining about the scale that reality uses?
Hexes and squares are just lines on paper, aren't they?
poor rational for "updating" Magic Missile?
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Hexes and squares are just lines on paper, aren't they?
Infiniti2000
First Post
Does this comment mean that you don't have 5ft hexes?
Neonchameleon
Legend
To me, Magic Missile may have been nerfed but at long last has a place. The times you need a RBA or range 20 are rare. And for damage, MM lost out to Cloud of Daggers (assuming Wis 14 - which is pretty normal IME). But making it autohit gives it a niche to shine in. (The only strength I can think of for Magic Missile is if you've got something like a tattoo of vengeance).
Except for the DMG p. 113, "Drawing Diagonal Walls" tip:
DMG page 113 said:
I'm not sure how this would be any more difficult than learning to square of hexes?
In my (admittedly short) time DMing, I've already made several encounter spaces with diagonals and erose caverns and circular/curved walls. It's only taken a minimal effort to ensure that I can clearly adjudicate what is occupiable and what is not, and that there is a clearly available line of movement.
-Dan'L
-Dan'L
Zinovia
Explorer
Hexes are sexy and squares are for squares,
When mapping round rooms and spiraling stairs,
Twisty caverns and labyrinths hexes define,
Much better than anything ruled by straight lines,
Hexes cause you to waddle to left and to right,
When you walk one direction, but the other's alright,
Diagonal movement is easy to do,
Untroubled by issues with square root of two,
No fire cubes here, all your spells will be round,
Or cone-shaped for blasts made of thunderous sound,
Yes hexes are fun, I prefer them by far,
And leave tiles and squares just to run LFR.
When mapping round rooms and spiraling stairs,
Twisty caverns and labyrinths hexes define,
Much better than anything ruled by straight lines,
Hexes cause you to waddle to left and to right,
When you walk one direction, but the other's alright,
Diagonal movement is easy to do,
Untroubled by issues with square root of two,
No fire cubes here, all your spells will be round,
Or cone-shaped for blasts made of thunderous sound,
Yes hexes are fun, I prefer them by far,
And leave tiles and squares just to run LFR.
Originally Posted by Plane Sailing 
One must wonder whether this means that Fireball might see a similar "effort to restore the power to its classical form".
After all, Fireball was THE iconic wizard spell, above all others. In 4e it is a paltry mess, inferior in pretty much every way to stinking cloud. Stinking cloud! I ask you!
Lets see Fireball restored to its classical form, thats what I say!
Just a suggestion...
New Fireball: Area burst 3 within 10, creatures within the blast take 5d6 fire dmg + int.
Effect: Creatures take int mod ongoing dmg per round (save ends) and are knocked prone.
Miss: Half dmg and knocked prone.
One must wonder whether this means that Fireball might see a similar "effort to restore the power to its classical form".
After all, Fireball was THE iconic wizard spell, above all others. In 4e it is a paltry mess, inferior in pretty much every way to stinking cloud. Stinking cloud! I ask you!
Lets see Fireball restored to its classical form, thats what I say!
Just a suggestion...
New Fireball: Area burst 3 within 10, creatures within the blast take 5d6 fire dmg + int.
Effect: Creatures take int mod ongoing dmg per round (save ends) and are knocked prone.
Miss: Half dmg and knocked prone.
Last edited:
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
If I was upgrading fireball, I think a suitable upgrade would be to add Ongoing 5 fire to it.
That means that it kills minions as effectively as stinking cloud (surely the minimum it should be capable of!) and it would add an average of 8.5 damage or so to targets hit by it (5, 50% +5, 50% another +5 etc)
That would make it a useful and flavourful spell. The best option at 5th level for killing minions, and a fireball that sets stuff on fire.
That would meet my needs.
Of course, I'd have no objection to fireballs squeezing through corridors and filling their appropriate volume - would even be easier to calculate in square-based geometry than in the old days, I presume!
Cheers
That means that it kills minions as effectively as stinking cloud (surely the minimum it should be capable of!) and it would add an average of 8.5 damage or so to targets hit by it (5, 50% +5, 50% another +5 etc)
That would make it a useful and flavourful spell. The best option at 5th level for killing minions, and a fireball that sets stuff on fire.
That would meet my needs.
Of course, I'd have no objection to fireballs squeezing through corridors and filling their appropriate volume - would even be easier to calculate in square-based geometry than in the old days, I presume!
Cheers
AFGNCAAP
First Post
as posted on the WotC forums
FWIW:
Caveat: I have not read all of the posts in this thread—a 39-pg. thread makes that daunting. I apologize if I have retread valid points discussed earlier in this thread, but it's my $0.02 worth. In addition, I do not intent to have a belligerent tone in this post.
I do not care for the changes made to the Magic Missile at-will power. Yes, it wasn't the "classic" spell of prior editions, but the classic spell was an artefact of an older system that worked within that older system.
I understand the new system has options that can "thwart" Magic Missile just as well as the older systems did, but this change on an at-will power seems like a waste to me. The relative pittance of damage (though auto-damage) does not seem worth the trade-off of the potential with critical hits for the wizard with the power that can serve as a ranged basic attack.
The wizard's option for a decent damaging ranged basic attack has been eliminated with this revision. Yes, it's a way to "clean up the board" of minions, but frankly, not every battle has minions in it.
Cloud of Daggers may have this autohit effect to it, but:
If the "spirit" of Magic Missile is meant to be kept, then the Shield utility power should utterly stop its damage, and it should last longer. There should be the Globe of Invulnerability spells that thwart powers of X level and lower, etc. Then again, why not bring back 3/2 attacks per round? Or level limits based on character race? Implements having "charges"? etc.
If this is made in an attempt to lure back older players to the new version of the game, I do not see much potential wisdom in this choice, since older players (presumably) still have their older versions of the game to continue playing, or left D&D because of the structure & format of the system of the game and have adopted a competitor's game system instead (such as WoD or GURPS) as there system of choice, if the player did not leave due to "growing out of" the game in the first place. To be honest, if I wanted to have the effects/workings of an older edition of the game, I'd simply play an older edition of the game.
I honestly liked how the original 4e version of Magic Missile worked (in a way, it became a wizard's eldritch blast), and I would prefer that the power return to its original 4e format (as well as all of the ancilliary game elements related to it, such as the related magical wand implement, etc.).
FWIW:
Caveat: I have not read all of the posts in this thread—a 39-pg. thread makes that daunting. I apologize if I have retread valid points discussed earlier in this thread, but it's my $0.02 worth. In addition, I do not intent to have a belligerent tone in this post.
I do not care for the changes made to the Magic Missile at-will power. Yes, it wasn't the "classic" spell of prior editions, but the classic spell was an artefact of an older system that worked within that older system.
I understand the new system has options that can "thwart" Magic Missile just as well as the older systems did, but this change on an at-will power seems like a waste to me. The relative pittance of damage (though auto-damage) does not seem worth the trade-off of the potential with critical hits for the wizard with the power that can serve as a ranged basic attack.
The wizard's option for a decent damaging ranged basic attack has been eliminated with this revision. Yes, it's a way to "clean up the board" of minions, but frankly, not every battle has minions in it.
Cloud of Daggers may have this autohit effect to it, but:
- it cannot be used as a ranged basic attack;
- its range is half that of magic missile (the range can make a difference at times; 10 squares is dangerously within a simple move+change attack distance for most opponents, something that cannot always be thwarted by an ally in the way all of the time; or, there is a distance greater than 10 sq. that cannot be easily closed due to 1 factor or another [pit, flying opponent, too many enemies, etc.]);
- its automatic damage is reliant on a build where a character has a 14+ Wisdom score (which a player may or may not opt to go with) to really extract damage potential for this power against any non-minion foe, if said foe actually enters or starts its turn in that area (otherwise, you're relying on a missed attack vs. a minion to work with the minion staying in place, or having a DM just "burn a minion" by having it go through said sqaure);
- its area is 1 square (not a burst 1—1 square); unless there is a "choke point" that can work out during a fight, this threatening area can easily be avoided by a foe.
- to be better than magic missile on a crit, it relies on: the wizard having a high (if not max) Wis score, the opponent in question being within 10 squares; and the opponent staying in the same square by the start of its next turn (which is not guaranteed if other party members use forced movement on the opponent, or the opponent has an immediate interrupt that allows movement before its next turn).
- it still requires an attack vs. Reflex for the bulk of its damage. Honestly, Phantom Bolt is a better option as a non-basic ranged attack at-will, because it targets the often-weaker Will defense of a foe, and grants a slide which can move a foe into a setup for an Area attack by another player, or base to base with an ally.
If the "spirit" of Magic Missile is meant to be kept, then the Shield utility power should utterly stop its damage, and it should last longer. There should be the Globe of Invulnerability spells that thwart powers of X level and lower, etc. Then again, why not bring back 3/2 attacks per round? Or level limits based on character race? Implements having "charges"? etc.
If this is made in an attempt to lure back older players to the new version of the game, I do not see much potential wisdom in this choice, since older players (presumably) still have their older versions of the game to continue playing, or left D&D because of the structure & format of the system of the game and have adopted a competitor's game system instead (such as WoD or GURPS) as there system of choice, if the player did not leave due to "growing out of" the game in the first place. To be honest, if I wanted to have the effects/workings of an older edition of the game, I'd simply play an older edition of the game.
I honestly liked how the original 4e version of Magic Missile worked (in a way, it became a wizard's eldritch blast), and I would prefer that the power return to its original 4e format (as well as all of the ancilliary game elements related to it, such as the related magical wand implement, etc.).
No. It means that I have rules for when a hex is partial.
4E has no rules (TMK) for when a square is partial. A 7 foot wide 35 degrees off diagonal corridor will be run differently by multiple groups because the game system is so focused on "stay between the lines".
Infiniti2000
First Post
Surely, you jest. Do you view only 3 posts per page?
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