Possible ECL for this template?

[Armadon63]

Human form

-4str -4con -4dex +6int +6wis +6cha
size: medium
movement 30ft
Skills: +8 to concentration, knowledge (arcana), spellcraft, use magic device

Forsaken Weapon: Magic born gave up the art of weaponry because of the primitive nature
of them. This over rides all class weapon proficiencies. Staffs are
the only weapon aloud by a magic born since they are prestigous for
magic users and used as a walking stick for the frail bodies.
Forsaken Armor: Magic born can not wear armor of anykind except robes. This over rides
all class armor profiencies.

Magic transformation (Ex): Able to transform the body into pure magic. A dark blue glue
takes the form of the human body. It glows as the spell faerie
fire and shines a blue light in a 30ft radius.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

magic form

-4str -4con -4dex +6int +6wis +6cha
size: medium
movement: 60ft (fly perfect)
Spell Resistance: 15+HD
Bonus feats: spell penetration, greater spell penetration, point blank shot (magic only)
presice shot (magic only)
Skills: +8 to concentration, knowledge (arcana), spellcraft, use magic device
+4 vs. spells and spell like abilities
Immune to sneak attacks and criticals as the vital areas cannot be seen through the
magic skin of a magic born.

Forsaken Weapon: Magic born gave up the art of weaponry because of the primitive nature
of them. This over rides all class weapon proficiencies. Staffs are
the only weapon aloud by a magic born since they are prestigous for
magic users and used as a walking stick for the frail bodies.
Forsaken Armor: Magic born can not wear armor of anykind except robes. This over rides
all class armor profiencies.
Magic reinforcement: a magic born can use and cast spells in an anti-magic field like
it wasn't there but doing so causes physical harm to him. take
1D4 subduel damage every round in an anti-magic field.
Painful Absorbtion: Can absorb spells through the skin but it is very painful and wrecks
Havoc on a magic borns spell casting ability. You take HP damage
equal to the spell level. Also you may not use magic abilities for
that many rounds. example: if you are hit with magic missle you
can absorb it taking 1 points of HP damage and all spell casting
abilities are suspended for 1 round.

Arcane Movement (Ex): As the spell fly but with perfect manuverability
Magic sight (Ex): As the spell greater arcane sight
Identify (Su): Like the spell Identify but only take 1 hour of the magic born to
identify the item. Must make an Int check to meet or exceed the
CL of the item being identified.
Gaze Attack (Su): loose ability to cast spells for 1d4 rounds
Will save 10 + 1/2HD + CHA
Spell like abilities: At will- mage armor, shield, magic missle (CL = HD)


Human transformation (Ex): Able to transform into human form










Ok we been working on it and this is what we have so far. now how is it?

 

[domino]

The same problems are still there.

 

[monboesen]

It's still unplayable.

You need to realize that piling on a lot of weaknesess does not make up for a bunch of strong powers. Especially not when anyone using the template will obviously be a spellcaster and that makes every weakness (except the -4 con) neglible.

Try describing in words, not rules, what this race is actually about. Try defining what you see as the core powers of the race and that will tell what can be cut away.



Assuming you want something close to ECL +0-1 my suggestions are as follows.

1. The massive stat penalites and bonuses must go. Choose one Physical stat to penalize with -2 and a mental with +2. I would go with -2 con and +2 int.

2. Same thing for the massive skill bonuses. Again choose two and reduce the bonus to +2. My suggestion would be +2 Knowledge (arcana) and +2 Use magic device.

3. Drop the strange no weapona and armor rules. What if someone in the game actually wants to play a fighter of this race. Should they not have that option?

4. Ditch the flying and the Spell resistance. Both are very strong powers and each should bump the ECL by +1, making it +2 for them alone.

5. Reduce the number of bonus feats to one and make it Spell penetration.

6. Reduce the saving throw bonus vs. magic to +2.

7. Ditch the immunity to sneak attacks and criticals. Immunity to these powers are not due to the attacker not being able to see your vitals, but when you don't have any vitals at all (like a golem or undead).

8. Drop the ability to cast spells in anti-magic fields and absorb spells. Keep the the taking subdual damage in anti-magic field cause its cool and fitting.

9. Drop the gaze attack and spell like abilities. Way to strong for low ECL. Let them be able to use some 0-1 level spells from the Wizards spell list 3 day.


So boiled down something like this.

Magic Born

-2con, +2int

Size: medium

Movement 30ft

Skills: +2 to knowledge (arcana)and use magic device

Magic transformation (Ex): Whenever a magic born uses magic (spells or innate powers) they are surrounded by a dark blue glue. The light is as strong and has the effects of the spell faerie fire.

Bonus feats: spell penetration

Magic sustained: A magic born needs not to eat, drink or breathe. Magic alone sustains him with life.

Magic dependent: A magic born cannot sustain his life force in null magic areas. They take 1D4 subdual damage every round in an anti-magic field.

Magic sight (Ex): The magic born can use Detect magic at will.

Resistant to magic. Magic born gets a inherent +2 bonus to saving throws vs. magic.

Spell like abilities: Choose three 0-1 level spells from the wizard spell list. They can be used 3/day total (CL = HD).

ECL +0 (maybe a bit strong, but not enough to be +1 IMO)

 

[Bront]

This is truely unplayable, and honestly looks like you are simply trying to see what you can get away with. Munchkining to the max.

The stat bonuses are unbalanced, and unreasonable, and they alone make it fairly unplayable. Not to mention the skill bonuses.

The weapon and armor restrictions are negligable because the character would be unlikely to be able to cary them anyway.

There's a thread on casting spells on, around, or through anti-magic shells. This ability is actualy not that incredably powerful or useful.

The Absorbtion power makes no sense. They do this instead of being effected? Can they chose this? or is it always on? It it automatic, or is there a DC involved?

Built in fly is very powerful. reasonable for what you are going for, but powerfull

Identify, at will? per day? interesting ability, but very powerfull given the short time of the spell.

Gaze attack is nice, I like it, though it's a bit dry how you describe it. Still, very powerful.

At will magic: Um, you have successfully made all other restrictions useless. Free +8 ac, and damage equivilent to up to 5 shortbow attacks per round that never miss.

I would never allow this as a template, period. I wouldn't even NPC/Monster it. It doesn't make much sense, and realy only seems like it's built to give the PC cool powers with no regard to how it all fits togeather.

If you're made of pure magic, an anti-magic field should do something like 1 point of con damage per round you're in it. It should tear at the fabric of your being.

Spell absorption shouldn't be a painfull process, they should simply have SR described as absorbing spells, or it should heal them (WAY to powerful).

Are you thinking humanoid pure energy/magic form, or misty sort of pure energy form? if the second, they should effectively be in a perminent gasseous form state. Pretty much as the spell, though since it's a natural state, no concentration check on spells.

+8 racial bonus to skills is amazing. Few ever get more than +2 to any skill, and that's usually a physical skill like climbing. Why are they so much better suited to a knowledge skill than a studious elf? Let alone every skill used in magic.

few races ever get more than a +2 to a non-strength stat, and even then, a +4 is huge. Just think, you are saying that a magic born's average intelegence, charisma, and wisdom is nearly the starting human maximum? Why?

Seriously, I would suggest breaking it up into two templates.

--------------
Divine and Arcane magic born.
Template gives them a subtype magic, but does not change their base type, size, speed, or any other abilities unless listed otherwise.

-2 Str, -2 Con for frail bodies.
Divine - +2 Wis and Cha - Greater attunement to divine magic
Arcane - +2 Int and Cha - Greater attunement to arcane magic

A magic born is resistant to magic of his own type, but susceptible to the opposite type. +2 to save vs spell of the same type, -2 to save vs spell of the opposite type. Unnamed magic gain a +1 save modifier (items, infusions, spell like abilities)

Sense magic: A magic born can sense magic at will

Empower casting: A magic born is attuned to casting their form of magic, and gain +1 caster level when casting spells of their own type.

Magic dependent: A magic born cannot sustain his life force in null magic areas. They take 1D4 subduel damage every round in an anti-magic field. (Taken from monboesen) A dispel magic cast on a mageborn will stun the mageborn for 1D4 rounds if they fail a save.

+2 racial bonus to use magic device and concentration when spellcasting. Attunement to magic makes it easier to use items, and harder to loose a spell when casting.

Cantrip: A magic born is assumed to always have the spell Prestidigitation going at all times, and can make minor (IE, not game effecting) magical effects happen without casting a spell.

Divine Power: A Divine Magic born may use an ability that requires turn undead as if it had 3 available turns per day. The feat extra turning can be used to increase this number. Feats that require the turn undead class ability can be selected as if the magic born had the class ability. PrCs that require the ability must be allowed by a GM.

Arcane Knowledge: Knowledge of the arcane comes easy to an Arcane Magic Born. If he uses an arcane spell book, he may select one additional spell per level for free from his spell list when he advances in that magic using class. If the spell caster has a limited number of known spells, he gains one additional known spell per spell level. This is chosen when access to that level of spells is gained.

ECL on this template? Probably +2, but it's flavorful, not overtly powerful, and has real weaknesses.

 

[yennico]

ECL +0 (maybe a bit strong, but not enough to be +1 IMO)

I like your version but I disagree with the ECL of your version.
Even without the spell-like abilities 3x/day IMHO I would guess the ECL is +1.
With 3x/day e.g. Magic Missile, Mage Armor and Ray of Enfeeblement IMHO I would adjust the ECL to +2.

 

[yennico]

This is truely unplayable, and honestly looks like you are simply trying to see what you can get away with. Munchkining to the max.

The stat bonuses are unbalanced, and unreasonable, and they alone make it fairly unplayable. Not to mention the skill bonuses.

The weapon and armor restrictions are negligable because the character would be unlikely to be able to cary them anyway.

I totally agree.

There's a thread on casting spells on, around, or through anti-magic shells. This ability is actualy not that incredably powerful or useful.

Can you give a link please?

The Absorbtion power makes no sense. They do this instead of being effected? Can they chose this? or is it always on? It it automatic, or is there a DC involved?

Built in fly is very powerful. reasonable for what you are going for, but powerfull

Identify, at will? per day? interesting ability, but very powerfull given the short time of the spell.

Gaze attack is nice, I like it, though it's a bit dry how you describe it. Still, very powerful.

At will magic: Um, you have successfully made all other restrictions useless. Free +8 ac, and damage equivilent to up to 5 shortbow attacks per round that never miss.

I would never allow this as a template, period. I wouldn't even NPC/Monster it. It doesn't make much sense, and realy only seems like it's built to give the PC cool powers with no regard to how it all fits togeather.

I totally agree again.

Spell absorption shouldn't be a painfull process, they should simply have SR described as absorbing spells, or it should heal them (WAY to powerful).

IMHO if a creature has SR it can not absorb a spell because lowering their SR to absorb the spell is IIRC an action.

few races ever get more than a +2 to a non-strength stat, and even then, a +4 is huge. Just think, you are saying that a magic born's average intelegence, charisma, and wisdom is nearly the starting human maximum? Why?

Perhaps because of munchkinism

Seriously, I would suggest breaking it up into two templates.

I like your template and it seems balanced to me.

 

[monboesen]

I like your version but I disagree with the ECL of your version.
Even without the spell-like abilities 3x/day IMHO I would guess the ECL is +1.
With 3x/day e.g. Magic Missile, Mage Armor and Ray of Enfeeblement IMHO I would adjust the ECL to +2.

I agree that it is touch and go. But IMO there are two major disadvantages to my suggested template.

1. -2 con is harsh. 1 hp per level is a very real and concrete disadvantage. I tend to rate con as the second most important stat on every character. No adventurer can expect long lives with low con.

2. The magic transformation thingie. It basically means that everyone within sigh knows you are using magic and that invisibility, blur, invisibility and concealment is impossible for you

A couple of extra 1 level spells per day is not really gamebreaking I think.


That said I really like Bronts versions too and suspect they might be closer to the flavour the original poster wanted.

 

[domino]

That said I really like Bronts versions too and suspect they might be closer to the flavour the original poster wanted.

Maybe. But personally, I'm suspecting that the original poster didn't give two tugs about flavor, and just wanted raw cheese.

 

[Bront]

Can you give a link please?

I like your template and it seems balanced to me.

It was a thread about shaping Anti-magic shell. Basicly, some spells can be cast through an anti-magic shell (Acid Arrow for instance). And some effects can pass through an anti-magic shell, they just don't effect anything inside the shell.

Glad you like them. Honestly, it's the first template I've ever drawn up. Just seemed interesting.

BTW, The Divine Mage Born ECL might only be 1, but not sure. The Divine Power ability isn't as useufll as it could be, and being more vulnerable to Arcane Magic is a bigger drawback than vice versa. It's kind of close.

 

[Bront]

Maybe. But personally, I'm suspecting that the original poster didn't give two tugs about flavor, and just wanted raw cheese.

Should we rename his origional template the Mozzarella Born?