Power attack bonus x2 for 2 hand weps

[satori01]

Power Attack
"Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attack and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.
Special: If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can't add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon)."

I of course got this from the sneak peek of the 3.5 PHB thread.
I have to admit I am somewhat ambivalent about this change, the damage output for power attack has always seemed fine IMHE. Throw in weapon focus and str buffs and Combat types seem to easily pull off a +5 power attack at 10th level against most opponents without a huge drop in their hitting abillity.
I'm not sure I want to see half orc fighters specialized in greatswords routinely pumping 10 extra points of damage per hit.

Again from my experience this was an uneeded change, so please if people can enlighten me with their experiences, and provide what they think justifies this rule, it will help me sleep better at night.

A couple of additional thoughts about this change:

1) Falchion is looking better now, double damage from power attack doubled again from regular crits will be a hefty increase.
Keen greataxe with improved critical will be a donnie brasco "forget about it" when it comes to crits,(imagine an greataxe wielding Paladin smiting evil, power attacking, and criticaling from the back of his mount,(or even a lance 2 handed) ouch bring out the bactine.
2) This rule will help the small sized fighter using a longsword in 2 hands.

 

[Darklone]

Argh. They screw the TWF fighters compared to the twohanded weapon twinks even more??

 

[Fenes 2]

I can safely say that this is another 3.5 rule that will not make it in my game.

 

[Wolf72]

wouldn't allow it?: What if you had an Improved PA feat which allowed you to use the 2x dmg (or even 1.5x) ... that'd be at least 2 feats before they could use that massive dmg ability.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Given the number of complaints I've heard about "Power Attack isn't worth it except as a prerequisite to Cleave" I'm not surprised they went this route -- though I'm surprised they didn't make it 1.5 * PA instead of 2 * PA, which would have been consistent with the existing strength bonus.

As to the comparison to TWF, it looks to me like they've boosted TWF quite a bit. TWF only requires one feat now; ITWF and Greater TWF are in and may have lowered requirements. Certainly the new ranger gets them earlier -- a 3.5 ranger, without spending any feats, can now pull off 6 attacks a round at 11th level compared to the two-handed fighter's 3.

They may not be equal, but I'd say they're close enough that both options remain viable choices.

 

[Fenes 2]

wouldn't allow it?: What if you had an Improved PA feat which allowed you to use the 2x dmg (or even 1.5x) ... that'd be at least 2 feats before they could use that massive dmg ability.

Not in my game. I judge it overpowered for my level 14 party, no matter if it costs two feats or one.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Hey, what's good for the PCs goes double for the bad guys ... while this looks like pushing it a bit (particularly for the ultimate-damage-critical min-maxers), I'm not convinced it's game breaking just by looking at it. I'll have to see it in play.

Note that at the same time, with the reduction in buff spell durations and the like, fighters may well have fewer periods of time with boosted abilities. You're less likely to take the -5 "to hit" penalty when you don't have an extended bull's strength to help compensate.

Again, I'll have to see it in play, but right now I don't think it's game breaking.

 

[Fenes 2]

Well, imc it is game breaking. I have a duelist/blade dancer fighter wielding a single rapier, a blade master (customized weapon master) fighter with bastard sword and shield, and a barbarian wielding a long spear as PCs. Giving the barbarian that much of a power-up would unbalance my game. Having to adjust all the NPCs would also require too much effort for me.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I really don't like the idea of this.

I don't like it for PC's, as it seems an unneeded and unnecessary boost to two-handed weapon use (which already gets more damage and higher str bonus).

It is even worse when monsters are brought into the equation. Giants have a huge attack bonus, and can easily take -5 or -10 on a power attack.

Plus, even without the use of power attack the fighters in my campaign (9th-11th level) are able to deal out 100 damage in a couple of rounds if they get a full attack off. This would make it even worse.

Thoughtfully,

 

[Rugger]

Wow. I've had my first "I can't wrap my head around what the Devs were thinking with THIS change" moment.

I don't understand where this change came from. All the mondo-tanks I've ever seen (in home games and Living Greyhawk games) nearly ALWAYS do at least a little Power Attack...they can afford to.

The thought of the twinked out fighter in my home game now doing DOUBLE the extra damage scares the crap outta me.

Plus it makes it REAL hard not to kill PC's when using an NPC that has PA.

Wow. I'm baffled...

But on another note, the not allowing it with Light Weapons thing just nerfed one of my characters bigtime...and makes me angry

Oh well...it's only a game

- Rugger
"I Lurk!"