generalhenry
First Post
yeah, but don't you want to power attack that dragon, it's satisfying.
Power Attack still sucks
- Thread starter Kzach
- Start date
yeah, but don't you want to power attack that dragon, it's satisfying.
Baumi
Adventurer
The new Power Attack is quite good as it is. I made a Wizard/Fighter lvl 11 with Staff and Power Attack and I can tell you -2 to hit versus +6 damage is nothing to sneeze at even for a primary Wizard!
Your point stands that it is not good for Encounter or Daily Powers, but you can Increase your Basic Attacks enormously with it and you don't loose to much if you miss a Basic Attack...
Your point stands that it is not good for Encounter or Daily Powers, but you can Increase your Basic Attacks enormously with it and you don't loose to much if you miss a Basic Attack...
In exchange for an additional [W] damage . . .
generalhenry
First Post
er... mostly you just used it at it's sweet spot. Not to say the sweet spot isn't nice. Just that it's all down hill from there.
That might fit some power, feat or class feature. But it's not power attack.
Which isn't to say no, but rather to say it would need a new name etc...
or perhaps a second feat.
I find power attack to be situationally useful. When I charge, against most targets, I would likely use power attack. It's not like I can trigger other abilities on a charge, and -1 attack for +3 damage is a good trade, even better with Powerful Charge. Add Fast Runner and a Horned Helm for extra charging fun.
Larry Hunsaker
First Post
One possible option I thought about is to treat Power Attack like Polearm Gamble. So you use the Power Attack feat and take no penalty to hit and do +2 (or +3 for two hands) damage, scaling higher as usual at paragon and epic, but you grant Combat Advantage to the target of your Power Attack until the start of your next turn.
If this is not enough of a penalty, make it that you grant Combat Advantage to all foes until the start of your next turn.
This simulates putting all your might behind the attack and as a consequence, leaving yourself open until you can recover from your attack.
Larry
If this is not enough of a penalty, make it that you grant Combat Advantage to all foes until the start of your next turn.
This simulates putting all your might behind the attack and as a consequence, leaving yourself open until you can recover from your attack.
Larry
Well, lets do the math.
[chance of hit]*[average damage per hit] + [chance of miss]*[average damage per miss] = average damage per attack.
Have to include the average damage per miss because that exists these days. For a weapon, lets assume a Fullblade.
We'll use a Fighter, level 6, 18 strength, a +2 weapon, and Reaping Strike. These are choices designed to try to make Power Attack more worthwhile- Reaping Strike's damage on a miss helps mitigate the lower attack roll from Power Attack.
So your Reaping Strike attack roll with this character is +3 level, +4 str, +3 proficiency, +2 enhancement, +1 class = +13. Damage is 1d12+6, 4 on a miss. Versus an enemy with an AC of 21 (reasonable for that level), you have a 65% chance of hitting, and a 35% chance of missing. Your average damage on a hit is 1d12+6 (avg 12.5), and 4 on a miss.
I'm going to ignore critical hit chances, as they affect both possibilities equally.
.65*12.5 + .35*4 = 9.525
With power attack, that changes to
.55*15.5 + .45*4 = 10.325
Adding Weapon Focus, by contrast, gives you
.65*13.5 + .35*4 = 10.175
So here's what we learn.
1. Power attack is useful. It can be used to increase damage, and increases your damage more than other damage increasing feats in at least some situations.
2. But it doesn't necessarily *feel* like power attack. Power attack should maybe feel like, you know, POWER ATTACK!! YAARGH! But its not.
So any new versions should probably take this into account. If you just want to increase damage, the feat already does that.
[chance of hit]*[average damage per hit] + [chance of miss]*[average damage per miss] = average damage per attack.
Have to include the average damage per miss because that exists these days. For a weapon, lets assume a Fullblade.
We'll use a Fighter, level 6, 18 strength, a +2 weapon, and Reaping Strike. These are choices designed to try to make Power Attack more worthwhile- Reaping Strike's damage on a miss helps mitigate the lower attack roll from Power Attack.
So your Reaping Strike attack roll with this character is +3 level, +4 str, +3 proficiency, +2 enhancement, +1 class = +13. Damage is 1d12+6, 4 on a miss. Versus an enemy with an AC of 21 (reasonable for that level), you have a 65% chance of hitting, and a 35% chance of missing. Your average damage on a hit is 1d12+6 (avg 12.5), and 4 on a miss.
I'm going to ignore critical hit chances, as they affect both possibilities equally.
.65*12.5 + .35*4 = 9.525
With power attack, that changes to
.55*15.5 + .45*4 = 10.325
Adding Weapon Focus, by contrast, gives you
.65*13.5 + .35*4 = 10.175
So here's what we learn.
1. Power attack is useful. It can be used to increase damage, and increases your damage more than other damage increasing feats in at least some situations.
2. But it doesn't necessarily *feel* like power attack. Power attack should maybe feel like, you know, POWER ATTACK!! YAARGH! But its not.
So any new versions should probably take this into account. If you just want to increase damage, the feat already does that.
A couple of thoughts:
1) You have to be careful when allowing things like healing surges to be spent with at-will abilities. One of the reasons WOTC didn't do this is so the fighter doesn't blow all of his surges every fight and then wants to rest all the time.
2) I too believe that power attack should effect the die type of the weapon. Most things don't, but most things also don't give you a penalty to your attack roll either. For example, the fighter power Reckless strike gives the fighter an extra W in exchange for a -2 to attack rolls. Feats are much weaker than powers, but the idea is there.
3) I had an idea not too long ago to make it so PA gave a +2 increase to your weapon die (so a d8 becomes a d12), but in exchange you were weakened until the end of your next turn. I think that was too good of a bump, maybe a +1 bump to die rolls and a +2 damage, or something of that note.
1) You have to be careful when allowing things like healing surges to be spent with at-will abilities. One of the reasons WOTC didn't do this is so the fighter doesn't blow all of his surges every fight and then wants to rest all the time.
2) I too believe that power attack should effect the die type of the weapon. Most things don't, but most things also don't give you a penalty to your attack roll either. For example, the fighter power Reckless strike gives the fighter an extra W in exchange for a -2 to attack rolls. Feats are much weaker than powers, but the idea is there.
3) I had an idea not too long ago to make it so PA gave a +2 increase to your weapon die (so a d8 becomes a d12), but in exchange you were weakened until the end of your next turn. I think that was too good of a bump, maybe a +1 bump to die rolls and a +2 damage, or something of that note.
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