Power level increase by levels

[Quasqueton]

How much more powerful is one level over the previous?

Take a 1st-level fighter vs. a 1st-level fighter. Same equipment [full plate, greatsword (to set a baseline, if needed)].

Either fighter has a 50% chance of winning, right (correct me if I'm wrong).

Now take a 2nd-level fighter. Is he twice as powerful as the 1st? Should he have a 50% to win against two 1st-level fighters?

Now take a 5th-level fighter. Would he have a 50% chance of winning against five 1st-level fighters. Does this mean the 5th-level is 5 times as powerful as the 1st-level?

Still assuming the same equipment---this thought experiment is just considereing ability, not finances.

Or would the 5th-level fighter have a 50% chance of winning against ten 1st-level fighters? 10 times as powerful?

How about a 20th-level fighter. Could he have a 50% win chance against one hundred 1st-level fighters?

If we were to break down the power increase of leveling, what would the numbers look like?

1st = x1
2nd = x2 (compared to 1st)
5th = x5 (compared to 1st)
10th = x10 (ditto)
20th = x20 (ditto --- and would this mean a 20th is x2 over a 10th?)

or

1st = x1
2nd = x2
5th = x10
10th = x20
20th = x100 (would this mean a 20th is x5 over a 10th?)

???

Would all the PC classes follow the same pattern? Is a 10th-level wizard to a 1st-level wizard the same as a 10th-level barbarian to a 1st-level barbarian?

Quasqueton

 

[Thanee]

+2 levels = x2 power according to the EL system

I think it starts at 2nd, tho. 2nd is x2 of 1st.

So...

1st = x1
2nd = x2
4th = x4
6th = x8
8th = x16
10th = x32
12th = x64
14th = x128
16th = x256
18th = x512
20th = x1024

One 20th level character is as strong as a thousand 1st level characters... sounds a lot, but then again, a 1st level character will do next to nothing in comparison. However, 10th to 20th relation seems a bit much, really... Hard to say, but 32 10th level characters should be able to do something against one 20th level.

Bye
Thanee

 

[JoeGKushner]

There are charts for this type of thinking in the DMG but a lot of it is going to depend on feats and other goods.

Fighter one has toughness and weapon focus

Fighter two has skill focus twice.

I know whose probably going to win that fight everything else equal.

4th level mage mets 5th level mage... that 3rd level spell makes all the difference...

Certain feats, like Weapon Specialization, really come into play as fighters gain more attacks. Sure, that +2 or +4 doesn't necessarily seem like a huge amount for one attack, but two or three?

And of course magic items and other things, like spells for spellcasters or innate abilities for monstrous races, make CR even more difficult to figure out.

Why do you ask? Trying to determine CRs or ECLS? Grim Tales does an excellent breakdown of CRs.

 

[Darkness]

However, 10th to 20th relation seems a bit much, really... Hard to say, but 32 10th level characters should be able to do something against one 20th level.

Let's see. 32 CR 10 creatures are around 3 EL 17 encounters. Since the level 20 character is alone, that's about equal to three party level +1 encounters. Doesn't look good. I hope he has Whirlwind Attack.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, probably there is some "dampener" in the progression in the EL table, can't really check that, since it is not in the SRD AFAIK and I don't have my DMG here.

But I can edit that later.

The general idea should be obvious, tho. The CR-EL table basically tells us (roughly) how powerful the levels are compared to each other.

I also wouldn't bet on one level 20 versus two level 18.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Remathilis]

In a nearly mathmatically perfect world (the same one that has spherical dragons) you'd be correct. However, the game seems hard to quantify like that.

10th level mage vs. 10th level fighter. Both begin 5'ft away from one another. Mage is toast.

Same, but 50' away, fighter's toast better than half the time, assuming the mage can do things like fly, has good offensive spells, etc.

Despite the 1 char level = +1 CR, there really isn't a good balancing factor. There are too many uncontrolable variables to really make such a mathmatically sound power escalation.

 

[diaglo]

if we went with the 50-50 at level 1.

a level 2 fighter vs level 1 fighter should be... 75-25 based on hps. or 3 times more likely to win.


but there really are too many variables to make it so cut and dry.

 

[Thanee]

10th level mage vs. 10th level fighter. Both begin 5'ft away from one another. Mage is toast.

Not really. It depends at the very least on who wins the initiative.



Anyways... of course, it is just a rough guideline, much like the whole level/CR/EL business... but it's better than nothing.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darkness]

I also wouldn't bet on one level 20 versus two level 18.

Yeah. At most, I'd bet on one level 8 sorcerer vs. 2 level 6 sorcerers. 'cause he has minor globe of invulnerability and thus is immune to the other guys' spells.

 

[Philip]

ECL (your level) does not attempt to indicate 'combat power' but rather 'adventuring power'.

That is, a regular 3rd lvl fighter is twice as powerful as an adventurer as a 1st lvl fighter.

Fighting is an important part of adventuring, no argument there. But letting two fighters face each other in single combat in a bare room is not a good test of their relative adventuring power.